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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:33 am 
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Vlad wrote:
Funny thing, my system interface went all kind of crazy after instaling the 17.12. I naturaly suspected Winstep but decided to investigate the problem further before reporting it. Turned out to be an Windows 10 update issue.


What were the symptoms?

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:43 am 
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Ok, I'm thinking about making a demo video of Nexus + Nexus Ultimate.

Now, as anybody who ever played with Winstep applications for any amount of time knows, each has hundreds, if not thousands, of different features.

Which do you guys think should be highlighted in a video, from a end user's perspective? What really impressed you when you saw Nexus or Nexus Ultimate in action for the first time?

And once you got over the eye candy, which most impressed you in terms of functionality?

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:15 am 
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winstep wrote:
Ok, I'm thinking about making a demo video of Nexus + Nexus Ultimate.

Now, as anybody who ever played with Winstep applications for any amount of time knows, each has hundreds, if not thousands, of different features.

Which do you guys think should be highlighted in a video, from a end user's perspective? What really impressed you when you saw Nexus or Nexus Ultimate in action for the first time?

And once you got over the eye candy, which most impressed you in terms of functionality?


well shelf and the multiple docks/sub docks were the selling point for me, modules came after that, and alarm functionality is great for heavy sleepers


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Quote:
Vlad wrote:
Funny thing, my system interface went all kind of crazy after instaling the 17.12. I naturaly suspected Winstep but decided to investigate the problem further before reporting it. Turned out to be an Windows 10 update issue.


What were the symptoms?


For one, systray icons (like volume) did not respond to left click, only the right click menu was working.
Also, the start menu was completly gone. But what finaly managed to put me on the right track was when I`ve discovered that none of the former "metro" apps was working ( I belive that Microsoft is calling those simply Windows apps right now). Initialy I was trying to acces the system settings (not the old control panel) and nothing was happening.
Another thing that happened and that made me suspect Winstep suite, was that all my docks got doubled (on top of each other). That problem I am still not shure if it is related to the beta ( I have not tested yet, after fixing the Windows update problem). The fix that worked for me was to deactivate fast startup for Winstep.
These are the bigest things that I`ve noticed and that forced me to dig deeper.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:06 pm 
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winstep wrote:

Quote:
Ok, I'm thinking about making a demo video of Nexus + Nexus Ultimate.

Now, as anybody who ever played with Winstep applications for any amount of time knows, each has hundreds, if not thousands, of different features.

Which do you guys think should be highlighted in a video, from a end user's perspective? What really impressed you when you saw Nexus or Nexus Ultimate in action for the first time?

And once you got over the eye candy, which most impressed you in terms of functionality?


I am posting what comes out, from the top of my head sort of speak, I don`t have much time to make something comprehensive:

Eye candy
1. Live reflections
2. Special effects for the icons ( reminding me of Cairo dock)
3. The colorise with dominant color of desktop wallpaper ( I use Stardock Deskcapes so the efect is pretty awsome in my opinion)
4. Animated icons for docks.
5. Great out of the box themes
6. Shelfs look great and offer nice visual variety
Functionality
1. Mac style ability to drag and open in chosen app (got even better now, when I can open my image files with drag+shift in Designer or Photoshop). Thank you again for that!
2. Shelf is great for organizing things, I love being able to use long shortcuts (Ctr+Alt+Shift+key) for opening individual tabs in the shelf ( I set those as 1 key press macros on my LG G19s keboard)
3. Drag and drop copy/move files between folders in shelf
4. Ability to open folders in Explorer as single folder or to acces the content as a menu by long press is a time saver. I use and enjoy being able to keep those menus open and move them on the screen as I see fit at the moment.
5. Plenty of flexibility in the way you can acces your data (docks, subdocks, shelfs, powerfull "Start menu" replacement, etc) adapts very well to, I belive, any workflow. Also it is easy to do things completly diferent when you get bored without making a sacrifice when it comes to a speedy operation of your PC for work related tasks.
6. I like having Dock entry items that can be a subdock placeholder and a shortcut at the same time ( I have related apps where the root is main app and the subdock contains scondary apps: Most used browser is the root, subdock contains the other browsers; Lightroom Classic is root, Lightroom CC is in the subdock, etc)
7. I salute the comeback in my Windows experience of the widgets! Whith the extra functionality. Nice to have a quick look at the weather and a big clock on the desktop.
8. I am pleased to see how good is your implementation of "swipe to reaveal" docks. It really works, even when you do real stuff, not just playing around. Thumbs up for that!
I guess I can continue, but I don`t have time for more. Hope my feedback will be usefull.
As a conclusion: your suite of apps offer a great deal of flexibility and functionality. It is great looking as well,not to mention that it is easy on the system. If you can make the theme builder more accesible, perhaps more of the old timers will willing to invest some time in creating more eye candy themes. As far as I can tell, the posibilities that the software offers in that regard are vast.


Last edited by Vlad on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:13 pm 
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winstep wrote:
Really weird nobody ever complained about this:

In Windows 10, system tray pop ups such as the volume mixer, battery information, network popup, etc..., started appearing in the wrong screen position - instead of next to the mouse pointer - after one of the newer Windows 10 builds if you clicked on the respective tray icon in a dock. The pop ups would appear at the correct hight but always aligned to the left margin of the screen.

Well, it was a hair pulling nightmare to figure out why that was happening and fix the issue, but it seems I just pulled it off. Yay! :D

I'm sure I'm not the only developer who HATES Microsoft because of the way they keep changing - and breaking - stuff. Long gone are the days where Windows would remain stable for a handful of years, now it feels like we're trying to hit a moving target.


I feel with you, my hate at Microsoft increases since decades...
I can't count the times in which I've seriously asked myself, if they just love to drive their users crazy, or if the developers of a multi-billion dollar company really can be that incapable.

Good example - forced updates. THE company with the longest history in making updates that destroy the OS comes up with the idea to introduce forced updates?!
Can't even find words for this. Is this supposed to be black humor?
Already had two updates that made my computer unusable, since Windows 10.
Couldn't live without system image backups.

However, I can confirm that it works properly. They open at the correct position. Unfortunately I don't have any use for it. :oops: The volume mixer tray app was the only Windows tray app that I used sometimes, but meanwhile I got a professional sound card (for producers) which has its own mixer tray app...
And this one opens at the last position.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:29 am 
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toniostarcevic wrote:
I feel with you, my hate at Microsoft increases since decades... I can't count the times in which I've seriously asked myself, if they just love to drive their users crazy, or if the developers of a multi-billion dollar company really can be that incapable.


OMFG!!! Right now I could not agree with you more. :evil:

As many of you know, I don't like Windows 10 much so my main development machine is still on Windows 7. There is a drawback to this: there can be certain things I would have noticed immediately if Windows 10 was my OS 24/7, which I don't because it isn't.

It took me watching a video on Youtube someone made about Nexus to realize something was VERY VERY wrong with the dragging of items from the Windows 10 Start Menu into the dock.

All the dragged items were being stored on the dock as 'virtual shell items', despite them being pointers to actual files! Worse, this virtual shell items would in turn point to shortcuts (.lnk) files, thus displaying very low res icons and running the shortcut instead of the target executable.

So, upon further investigation what do I find out?

All items on your computer can be pointed to via item ID lists, or 'virtual shell items'. This includes those items that are not actual files (for instance, items in the Windows Control Panel) as well as items that ARE actual files. How do you know the difference? There is an API function which allows you to query what type of item that is, if it is a folder (virtual shell items can also be folders/containers without being actual folders in your hard drive, for instance, My Computer, Control Panel, etc...), and also if it is part of the file system (i.e.; an actual file or executable on your hard drive).

Well, turns out that when you query an item coming from the Windows Start Menu to know if it is an actual file, the system now LIES to you: it tells you it is a folder (Eh?! it is NOT!) but NOT a file system object (despite the fact that it actually IS).

So the only way to know the difference in Windows 10 now (i.e.; if dealing with an actual virtual shell item or a file in the file system) is to try and get a file system path to the object regardless. If that is not an actual file, the function will fail.

WHY oh WHY are MS developers now failing to even follow their own @£§@§ rules?! Seriously, Windows is going to sh*t.

Furthermore, this crap must have been introduced in one of the latest Windows 10 'refreshes', since drag & drop from the Windows 10 Start Menu worked as expected when I had last tested it. They keep changing stuff and they keep breaking stuff, but you can't expect developers to re-test every single feature in their applications again and again because MS 'might have changed something... AGAIN!'.

Apologies for the rant. I am seriously fuming right now.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:33 am 
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toniostarcevic wrote:

Quote:
feel with you, my hate at Microsoft increases since decades...


Just this part of the post is quoted just to keep the post short, but the reply is for the entire post.

I had that strange bootloop problem with the initial upgrade on my wife laptop. Took a while to fix. About the problems with last update, I forgot the bigest one: I lost the virtual desktops entirely :lol: I thought that somehow Winstep 17.12 beta is interfering with the global shortcuts, tryed to go to settings which was not working, then stop to think and google... Turned up that many had this problem with one update or another: system files getting corupted or a big chunk of windows os that just stop working (namely the "new and improved" part).

I use the volume roll of my keyboard, this is more convenient. I still need to acces some systray apps menu fairly often....


Last edited by Vlad on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:42 am 
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WINSTEP wrote:

Quote:
Apologies for the rant. I am seriously fuming right now.



It is understandable. One of the best things about your software, that is after all a productivity enhancement software, is the fact that is actualy stable enough to be used in a production environment. No amount of functionality that you manage to pack in your software will matter if you can not actualy use the software :lol:
Microsoft is making your work alot harder than it should be.


Last edited by Vlad on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:05 am 
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winstep wrote:
toniostarcevic wrote:

Apologies for the rant. I am seriously fuming right now.


i completely understand you
im working on my masters in computer science education (though not sure if i actually want to be a teacher in current economy in croatia)

i have been fixing and cleaning up peoples computers

i had gotten to know guts of windows 98/xp/7 quite well, skipped 8

tried 10 for couple of months, rolled back to 7, frustrated by minor known bugs that were known since before i started using w10

when i have to troubleshoot w8/w10 pc my skin crawls


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:20 am 
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toniostarcevic wrote:


Quote:
I can't count the times in which I've seriously asked myself, if they just love to drive their users crazy, or if the developers of a multi-billion dollar company really can be that incapable.


As for how capable the Microsoft programers are, I personaly think that they are more than capable to fix the problems we users are facing. The reason that does not happen is, again, in my opinion, the bussines policy of this company, that seems to prioritise other things over customer satisfaction. The fact that they do not deem necesary to provide a quality product is perhaps a consequence of the fact that they know many of their customers simply do not have any choice but to use their products, regadless of the... inconveniences


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:39 am 
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winstep wrote:

Apologies for the rant. I am seriously fuming right now.


Yes, that sounds exactly like MS.
I'm no developer, but a Windows "power user" since more than 20 years, and I've seen so many programs suddenly behaving strange after a Windows update, or failing to work.
I've spent thousands, if not tens of thousands of hours fixing stuff. Or trying to fix stuff.
I've seen features changing all the time, settings wandering around from an illogical location to an even more illogical location.
Error messages... omg, I think 30% of the Windows code is error messages. I've seen thousands of them and almost never the same twice. It's like there's an infinite amount of them.
Stability is going up and down like crazy.
In Win 8 switching monitors worked like a charm - fast and stable.
In Win 10 it's slow and glitchy again...
Windows is a monster that probably never will be tamed.
I think the code is pure chaos.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:44 pm 
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Something else that really gets on my nerves when watching Youtube videos is seeing how many times the wallpaper is not correctly picked up by the Winstep application on Windows 10. Instead what you get on the Themes tab (for instance) is a completely white background where the wallpaper should be.

This is the direct result of MS developers not caring one bit about backwards compatibility any more, even for stuff as simple - and going as far back - as changing wallpapers. With their 'transcodedwallpaper' crap which sometimes has a file extension and sometimes doesn't even have that, they completely broke any past and future 3rd party wallpaper switchers. Confusion reigns supreme!

If any of you suffers from this (white background on the theme preview window of the Themes tab) PLEASE, PLEASE let me know so I can try and figure out what might be causing it. So far I haven't been able to reproduce the issue here, and I did work a lot on it in the v17.1 release.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Quote:
Apologies for the rant. I am seriously fuming right now.


while on the topic of offtopic about microsoft, not sure if it had to do with my laptop configuration (although i noticed it on other pcs also) or in my head, but are new windows apps bit more sluggish than old ones, like windows 10 settings or even calculator

calculator is i think a good example, it just seemed that it takes longer time to launch new windows 10 calculator, than it does in w 7, but that lag is something i always seem to notice in a lot of native windows app/ui


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v17.1?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:59 am 
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winstep wrote:
Something else that really gets on my nerves when watching Youtube videos is seeing how many times the wallpaper is not correctly picked up by the Winstep application on Windows 10. Instead what you get on the Themes tab (for instance) is a completely white background where the wallpaper should be.


Doh. I just read somewhere that Windows 10 also accepts PNG images as desktop wallpaper. I wonder if that's the reason?

The wallpaper is loaded into the Themes tab background using the native LoadPicture command, instead of GDI+. LoadPicture only supports BMP and JPG images.

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