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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:38 pm 
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Windy wrote:
How about listing ALL of the options/features (preferably in its own thread) of Winstep Xtreme and I will go through all of them and see if I can find them/settings.


Eheh, thanks for the offer, but making such a list would take more time than what I have available. :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:09 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
BTW, pity in a way the old Next interface is gone, but OTOH, most users probably would find it completely baffling even though it was so much more convenient to use - e.g., esp. the scroll bars and their buttons, etc.

That really had to go, for a LOT of reasons. :)

Yes, I could see that. :)

winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
....we used to have to copy the NeXTcontrols.ocx manually first and also install VB runtimes 5 and 6 first....

winstep wrote:
Oh boy. I can't remember anymore lol. Don't you have the setup file? It should install the VB5 runtime as well as properly register nextcontrols.ocx.

Ah, thx Jorge, yes indeed, I do have the full setup files so I'll just go ahead - if it complains it'll be back to the hunt. I'm fairly sure they must be in my archived NS Beta archives (which should also have pre-release NS1 even and possibly even all sorts of pertinent suggestions/discussions etc.).

winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
I'm using a tiled dock and tiled tasklist, and although the gfx files for the tiles are the same (at 64 pixels square), those in the dock appear smaller than those in the tasklist (or, vice versa, the those in the tasklist are larger than those in the dock). The tasklist one are probably correct I think. Oh, and I use what used to be the old 'Large Fonts' in Windows (now 125%). I'm sure it's all the result of my missing a lot of new stuff during my long hiatus from Winstep and computers.


Open WorkShelf Preferences -> General tab -> More Options button.

Check out if the high DPI settings are disabled, especially the one for the dock.

Will do as soon as I get offline and on the laptop, thank you Jorge. I've seen those settings but couldn't make heads or tails of them - in fact, I must have seen all the different (and mostly new) settings, as tends to be my usual practice. :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:06 pm 
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Guys, I need your help troubleshooting something that I can't reproduce here:

Open the Moon Phase module settings panel and leave it open while you work on other things (just forget it's there for a while).

Does WorkShelf or Nexus Ultimate eventually crash with an Access Violation error after a while?

Please report back Yay or Nay.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:26 am 
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Regarding the finding options in the UI interface, how about adding a search function? Apple has that, Windows 10 sort of has that in the settings window...

I like the Apple aproach, it is highlighting the options in the UI while you search. Well that works because they have all thins in one window. Windows 10 settings search seems more suitable in Winstep case.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:50 am 
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winstep wrote:
Quote:
Guys, I need your help troubleshooting something that I can't reproduce here:

Open the Moon Phase module settings panel and leave it open while you work on other things (just forget it's there for a while).

Does WorkShelf or Nexus Ultimate eventually crash with an Access Violation error after a while?

Please report back Yay or Nay



I have tried the Moon settings thing and got a crash in a few minutes. I am running Windows 10 64 bit Home.


Last edited by Vlad on Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:51 am 
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Concerning the functionality, I find it more convenient to use drag and drop: to open things, move them, etc

If this does not distract you too much from what you want to implement, Jorge, can you make it so when we drag something from an application ( say a file from the Windows Explorer) to another application ( say an whatsapp tab in a web browser), if you hover the mouse over the said icon in a dock, that one would get focus and pop in front? As it is currently, if someone wants to do that, it has to do an ALT+TAB while doing the drag and drop.
Second, would it make sense to you to change the behaviour of the drag and drop a *.png or something file over an icon in a dock to change the default icon of an application from a dock? As it is currently, if you want to open that said *.png or something with the application that icon is pointing at, you have to keep the ALT key pressed. It seems to me that it should be the other way around, to keep ALT pressed if you want to change the icon of an application in the dock with an image file and the normal behaviour to be to open the file instead. I don`t know about others, but I find myself accidentally changing the icons of my image editing software when I drag and drop to open an file with them, because I forget to keep ALT pressed. On the other hand, I do not find myself actually changing the image of an icon all that often.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:47 am 
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Jorge. About 10 minutes in . . . FYI, I hit retry and got the message a second time, hit retry again, and was able to continue.


Attachments:
WorkShelf Moon Phase Settings Exception.png
WorkShelf Moon Phase Settings Exception.png [ 448.47 KiB | Viewed 17114 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:15 pm 
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vectornut wrote:
Jorge. About 10 minutes in . . . FYI, I hit retry and got the message a second time, hit retry again, and was able to continue.


Thanks!

This has been driving me up a wall. I have been unable to reproduce on my Windows 7 machine, but was finally able to reproduce on a Windows 10 VM after a few minutes.

It seems related to OS version at first, but it might be something else: Paul, Vlad, what are your screen DPI settings?

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:43 pm 
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winstep wrote:
vectornut wrote:
Jorge. About 10 minutes in . . . FYI, I hit retry and got the message a second time, hit retry again, and was able to continue.

Thanks!

This has been driving me up a wall. I have been unable to reproduce on my Windows 7 machine, but was finally able to reproduce on a Windows 10 VM after a few minutes.

It seems related to OS version at first, but it might be something else: Paul, Vlad, what are your screen DPI settings?

Same thing here, also as per Paul. Win10 Pro 64bit, 125DPI. Tried it specially, don't normally use it. :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:59 pm 
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nexter wrote:
winstep wrote:
Check out if the high DPI settings are disabled, especially the one for the dock.

nexter wrote:
Will do as soon as I get offline and on the laptop, thank you Jorge. I've seen those settings but couldn't make heads or tails of them - in fact, I must have seen all the different (and mostly new) settings, as tends to be my usual practice. :)

Grr! High DPI settings disabled everywhere, enabled everywhere, no difference. Tasklist tiles still display as 72 pixels square, while Nexus and Module tiles are the correct 64. At my wits' end!

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:21 pm 
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nexter wrote:
Tasklist tiles still display as 72 pixels square, while Nexus and Module tiles are the correct 64. At my wits' end!


Have you tried decreasing the size of the tasklist icons already?

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:34 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Tasklist tiles still display as 72 pixels square, while Nexus and Module tiles are the correct 64. At my wits' end!

Have you tried decreasing the size of the tasklist icons already?

I have now. :) Reducing the icon size from 48 to 42 seems to roughly do the trick and the tiles in Tasklist and Nexus now look about the same (haven't measured yet), but the icons on the tasklist now look too small compared to those on Nexus and Workshelf. This is bizarre.
Anyway, why should icon size affect the tile size? Have MS done something really bizarre with the large DPI stuff since XP? There (albeit with then NS3.4 or so and WS2 I think) always used to get the icon and tile size specified (and appropriate gfx files provided).

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:10 pm 
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Vlad wrote:
Concerning the functionality, I find it more convenient to use drag and drop: to open things, move them, etc

If this does not distract you too much from what you want to implement, Jorge, can you make it so when we drag something from an application ( say a file from the Windows Explorer) to another application ( say an whatsapp tab in a web browser), if you hover the mouse over the said icon in a dock, that one would get focus and pop in front? As it is currently, if someone wants to do that, it has to do an ALT+TAB while doing the drag and drop.

Makes sense to me. Would make life simpler.
Vlad wrote:
Second, would it make sense to you to change the behaviour of the drag and drop a *.png or something file over an icon in a dock to change the default icon of an application from a dock? As it is currently, if you want to open that said *.png or something with the application that icon is pointing at, you have to keep the ALT key pressed. It seems to me that it should be the other way around, to keep ALT pressed if you want to change the icon of an application in the dock with an image file and the normal behaviour to be to open the file instead. I don`t know about others, but I find myself accidentally changing the icons of my image editing software when I drag and drop to open an file with them, because I forget to keep ALT pressed. On the other hand, I do not find myself actually changing the image of an icon all that often.

Again, makes very much sense to me. If you drop a file of an appropriate app on the app's dock icon (do. Workshelf) then that file should be opened with that app. Ideally. :)

There's that dreaded thing again earlier - Windows Explorer (or now, less confusingly, File Explorer). Erm, Jorge, dare one mention that most mythical of all beasts, File Browser? ;) (WinBrowser was quite a decent app but didn't work beyond XP 32bit, alas. I gather they have a new version, but from what I've seen it doesn't seem anything like the old one.) While File Explorer in Win10 is greatly improved over anything previous, it still is painful to use and painfully slow to use. Within the context of Winstep Xtreme, a proper File Browser á la the NeXT FileViewer (and the third party NeXplorer under Openstep Enterprise for NT) would make imminent sense, given all the interoperability of Winstep. Of course, this would not be a minor undertaking I'm sure Jorge - and would of course mean a price increase, hint, hint ;) - but I'm equally sure that you could re-use a lot of the Workshelf code, too - after all, File Viewer is/was essentially a series of shelves with varying functionality. :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:34 pm 
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winstep wrote:
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t seems related to OS version at first, but it might be something else: Paul, Vlad, what are your screen DPI settings?


120 DPI


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.3?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:19 pm 
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Vlad wrote:
If this does not distract you too much from what you want to implement, Jorge, can you make it so when we drag something from an application ( say a file from the Windows Explorer) to another application ( say an whatsapp tab in a web browser), if you hover the mouse over the said icon in a dock, that one would get focus and pop in front? As it is currently, if someone wants to do that, it has to do an ALT+TAB while doing the drag and drop.


It already does that for icons in the running applications side of the dock *and* NextSTART taslist/taskbar buttons.

My guess is that you are using the 'Combine' feature and the application you are trying to drag something into is actually on the left side of the dock.

Anyway, makes sense, I'll see what I can do.

Vlad wrote:
It seems to me that it should be the other way around, to keep ALT pressed if you want to change the icon of an application in the dock with an image file and the normal behaviour to be to open the file instead. I don`t know about others, but I find myself accidentally changing the icons of my image editing software when I drag and drop to open an file with them, because I forget to keep ALT pressed. On the other hand, I do not find myself actually changing the image of an icon all that often.


nexter wrote:
Again, makes very much sense to me. If you drop a file of an appropriate app on the app's dock icon (do. Workshelf) then that file should be opened with that app. Ideally. :)


If you drop a file into an app's dock icon, it *will* open that file in the app. EXCEPT if the file is a PNG, TIF or ICO file.

This is because this gives us a very quick and convenient way to customize icons in the dock, Shelf, menus, Quick Launch area of the NextSTART taskbar. EVERYWHERE on the Winstep suite that is how you can quickly customize icons.

Now, Vlad, you're biased because you already did all the icon customization you needed (remember what I wrote above about new vs. existing users?). If you were a new user, you would be complaining about having to use the ALT key instead.

Personally I think not having to press the ALT key to customize icons is a God send and GREAT for new users, so I am not going to change that.

So, there is only one way to solve this problem in a way that everybody is happy: add a new option to set whether you need to press the ALT key to customize icons or not.

Vlad wrote:
120 DPI


Right. What about you, Paul?

I was able to reproduce the crash on the Modules tab of Nexus Ultimate too, on the Windows 10 VM which I run at 150% DPI. For the time being I suspect this has something to do with GDI+ and screen DPI, and not so much with Windows 10.

But if it has something to do with creating the moon frame bitmaps, why doesn't the Moon Calendar crash as well, with it's big animated moon?

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