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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:49 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Good plan re: max icon rows.

Well, yeah, but it turns out that min icon rows is also useful (and is actually working with Drawers too).

So, instead of replacing that field in Preferences, I actually need to add another one for Drawer's max rows/icons.

There's always something more coming up when and where you don't expect it. :( All the same, yeah, makes sense.
winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Leaving 'Shelf' could be confusing, so for the time being I'd stick to whatever name and leave it for translations to get updated. Anyway, if it's going to be 'Drawer', why does it have to be translated anyway?

The problem is not the name, but the whole phrase. For instance, 'Keep tabs above other windows when the shelf is collapsed' is a completely different translation line to 'Keep tabs above other windows when the drawer is collapsed'. I can't just automatically replace the name 'shelf' with 'drawer' in the translation even if I know what the translation for the word 'shelf' is - unlike English, many other languages use different articles according to the gender of the associated noun, so it would be a problem if 'Shelf' is translated as a feminine word but 'Drawer' as a masculine word.

I'll see what I can do anyway to minimize the issue.

Yeah, complicated. And two languages may have both m and f gender but the same word may be f in one and m in the other - e.g., in standard English the moon is f and the sun m - yet, I know of several languages where it's the other way around. (Modern English does, in theory, still have m, f and n (neuter) grammatical gender but the differentiating articles started falling out of use in late Middle English, around the latter part of the 15th c. Old English revels in gender and gazillions of declension etc. of course. Modern Icelandic is very similar to Old Eng. if by now a bit simplified.)

What about machine translation? Google translate seems fairly reliable, at least wrt many languages (though definitely not so good English to French as I found out once to my cost! ;) ).

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:53 pm 
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winstep wrote:
winstep wrote:
I can't just automatically replace the name 'shelf' with 'drawer' in the translation even if I know what the translation for the word 'shelf' is - unlike English, many other languages use different articles according to the gender of the associated noun, so it would be a problem if 'Shelf' is translated as a feminine word but 'Drawer' as a masculine word.


But, alas, that is what I just did. Better than having huge portions of the Drawer Properties panels untranslated.

It seems to be actually working fine.

Anyway, this mess will teach me to use generalized phrases in the future for settings instead of phrases referencing specific objects.

LOL! Ah well, well done Jorge.

BTW, don't forget about the stuff I posted during the last week, inc. esp. also that problem with the shelf scroll icons.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:47 pm 
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nexter wrote:
BTW, don't forget about the stuff I posted during the last week, inc. esp. also that problem with the shelf scroll icons.


Working on all of it. There's a ton of details to take care of - and a lot of text in this thread, so I hope I don't get lost lol.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:50 pm 
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winstep wrote:
I can't just automatically replace the name 'shelf' with 'drawer' in the translation even if I know what the translation for the word 'shelf' is - unlike English, many other languages use different articles according to the gender of the associated noun, so it would be a problem if 'Shelf' is translated as a feminine word but 'Drawer' as a masculine word.


Actually having done this with the word 'Drawer' automatically replacing 'Shelf' in the Drawer Properties dialog(s) and seeing how well it actually worked out, I did the same for those occasions where the Shelf Properties dialog uses the word 'dock' instead of 'Shelf' as it should.

All that is required is that, when translating 'Shelf', 'Dock' and 'Drawer', the translator uses nouns that have the same gender. From what I've seen by looking at some other language translations (those I could actually understand) this does not seem to be an issue.

Anyway, things are starting to look good. The Drawer is a bit complicated because it is supposed to automatically expand to show all items in it on most occasions, but not always: for instance, it should NOT dynamically resize itself (when you had or remove items to and from it) if you have expanded or collapsed it manually by dragging the tab handle.

Likewise, specifying a maximum number of icons to be shown should not prevent you from fully expanding the Drawer or resizing it to show an arbitrary number of icons.

When manually resizing a Shelf or Drawer by dragging the tab handle up or down (in the case of an horizontal Shelf or Drawer), I now made it smoothly resize instead of resizing abruptly (but without the final boing effect or the expand/collapse sound effect). Seems to work fine this way, but I guess you guys will let me know.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:18 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
BTW, don't forget about the stuff I posted during the last week, inc. esp. also that problem with the shelf scroll icons.

Working on all of it. There's a ton of details to take care of - and a lot of text in this thread, so I hope I don't get lost lol.

Yep, I bet. Sweat, Baby, sweat! ;) Still on course for 18.7 or are we heading for 18.8?
winstep wrote:
.... Anyway, things are starting to look good. The Drawer is a bit complicated because it is supposed to automatically expand to show all items in it on most occasions, but not always: for instance, it should NOT dynamically resize itself (when you had or remove items to and from it) if you have expanded or collapsed it manually by dragging the tab handle.

Likewise, specifying a maximum number of icons to be shown should not prevent you from fully expanding the Drawer or resizing it to show an arbitrary number of icons.

When manually resizing a Shelf or Drawer by dragging the tab handle up or down (in the case of an horizontal Shelf or Drawer), I now made it smoothly resize instead of resizing abruptly (but without the final boing effect or the expand/collapse sound effect). Seems to work fine this way, but I guess you guys will let me know.

We most certainly will. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:19 pm 
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nexter wrote:
Also, more on the drag-and-drop delete on the recycler from other apps. Even selecting a few files results in the recycler only deleting the first one. So it would seem that it's not the total size of folders/files but rather just the number of them that results in this behaviour. Dragging and dropping a bunch of shortcuts from within a shelf seems fine though, at least, as far as I can tell. Haven't been able to try this extensively yet as it takes a bit to copy more shortcuts.

The same happens whether the recycler is set to delete permanently or not.


Ok, I'm going to need more info on this, I'm not able to reproduce here.

If I delete several files inside a folder by dragging them from the folder into the Recycler *module* the files get deleted as normal.

Ric, right click the Recycler Module, select Recycler Settings and make sure that 'Display Confirmation Before Deleting' is enabled. Now open a folder with several files you don't need, select them all and drag them onto the Recycler module.

You should get a *Windows* dialog saying something like 'Multiple file delete' and 'are you sure you want to move these <x> items to the recycle bin?' (same prompt you would get if, instead of drag & dropping the files into the Recycle Bin module, you pressed the DEL key on your keyboard after selecting the files). Is the <x> number of files correct? Does only 1 file get deleted after this?

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:40 pm 
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Vlad wrote:
If it is not too much trouble Jorge, can you add a new option for colorize? Now we have: none, user selected color and dominant color of background. A "use window accent color" option in windows 10, would be nice...


I haven't forgotten about your request. In fact, I like the idea, and I have been toying with the idea of adding yet another colorization scheme (to the existing Tint and Hue Shift methods): an additive one, where a specific color is *added* to those already there in the original bitmap. In practice this would mainly be a practical way to tint blacks and grays, which are otherwise left alone by the Tint and Hue shift methods.

Of course, using this method on a colorful theme (vs. a mainly monochrome or gray theme) will have undetermined and not always pleasant results lol

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:44 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Also, more on the drag-and-drop delete on the recycler from other apps. Even selecting a few files results in the recycler only deleting the first one. So it would seem that it's not the total size of folders/files but rather just the number of them that results in this behaviour. Dragging and dropping a bunch of shortcuts from within a shelf seems fine though, at least, as far as I can tell. Haven't been able to try this extensively yet as it takes a bit to copy more shortcuts.

The same happens whether the recycler is set to delete permanently or not.

Ok, I'm going to need more info on this, I'm not able to reproduce here.

If I delete several files inside a folder by dragging them from the folder into the Recycler *module* the files get deleted as normal.

Ric, right click the Recycler Module, select Recycler Settings and make sure that 'Display Confirmation Before Deleting' is enabled. Now open a folder with several files you don't need, select them all and drag them onto the Recycler module.

You should get a *Windows* dialog saying something like 'Multiple file delete' and 'are you sure you want to move these <x> items to the recycle bin?' (same prompt you would get if, instead of drag & dropping the files into the Recycle Bin module, you pressed the DEL key on your keyboard after selecting the files). Is the <x> number of files correct? Does only 1 file get deleted after this?

Well I be....! Just tried that, and files (between 7 and a dozen) get deleted all present and correct! And not only in the desktop mod but even on the shelf. When I disabled the notification again, it still worked properly. Totally baffled.

Will test this more extensively next chance I get and see what happens.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:50 pm 
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nexter wrote:
Well I be....! Just tried that, and files (between 7 and a dozen) get deleted all present and correct! And not only in the desktop mod but even on the shelf. When I disabled the notification again, it still worked properly. Totally baffled.

Will test this more extensively next chance I get and see what happens.


LOL. Thanks. I didn't see ANY reason in the code why deleting *files* from a folder using the Recycler module would fail. I just pass Windows a list of files to delete (which is itself provided by Windows in the DropFiles structure) and Windows does the rest.

There was a potential minor issue when deleting files from a Shelf though (because of the new multi-shelf ability), which I fixed already, so time looking into this has not been wasted.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:02 pm 
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winstep wrote:
Vlad wrote:
If it is not too much trouble Jorge, can you add a new option for colorize? Now we have: none, user selected color and dominant color of background. A "use window accent color" option in windows 10, would be nice...


I haven't forgotten about your request. In fact, I like the idea, and I have been toying with the idea of adding yet another colorization scheme (to the existing Tint and Hue Shift methods): an additive one, where a specific color is *added* to those already there in the original bitmap. In practice this would mainly be a practical way to tint blacks and grays, which are otherwise left alone by the Tint and Hue shift methods.

Of course, using this method on a colorful theme (vs. a mainly monochrome or gray theme) will have undetermined and not always pleasant results lol

Personally speaking, I hate all this colourisation stuff with a passion. Especially so as I have a theme that I deliberately set out to keep it entirely greyscale. And for a reason. Colour itself is a distraction and encourages us to look at things for longer than at something grey. And people click more often, etc. So I had designed this particular theme with all that kind of thing in mind and kept it grey. Even the wallpaper. And nowadays any bugger can come along and colour it any way they bloomin' like. Not fair. ;)

But, well done anyway Jorge. Perhaps we could have a theme-specific sort of over-ride that stops colourisation? :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:11 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Well I be....! Just tried that, and files (between 7 and a dozen) get deleted all present and correct! And not only in the desktop mod but even on the shelf. When I disabled the notification again, it still worked properly. Totally baffled.

Will test this more extensively next chance I get and see what happens.

LOL. Thanks. I didn't see ANY reason in the code why deleting *files* from a folder using the Recycler module would fail. I just pass Windows a list of files to delete (which is itself provided by Windows in the DropFiles structure) and Windows does the rest.

There was a potential minor issue when deleting files from a Shelf though (because of the new multi-shelf ability), which I fixed already, so time looking into this has not been wasted.

I did check previously what was actually in the recycler and what had got left behind, so it definitely did happen though. Mainly dropping to the shelf recycler, but also dock and desktop. Bizarre.

Oh and with the shift icons to make space for dropping a new link onto the shelf enabled, getting files from another app to drop into the shelf/dock recycler can be one heck of a wild goose chase even if you hit the dead-on angle.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:00 pm 
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nexter wrote:
Perhaps we could have a theme-specific sort of over-ride that stops colourisation? :)


I've heard of grammar-Nazis before, but colorization-Nazis it's the first time. :P

Just kidding Ric, put that chair down man!!! :wink: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:57 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Perhaps we could have a theme-specific sort of over-ride that stops colourisation? :)


I've heard of grammar-Nazis before, but colorization-Nazis it's the first time. :P

Just kidding Ric, put that chair down man!!! :wink: :lol:

ROFL! :) Well, it's a dirty job but somebody has to do it. :P Chair? What chair Jorge? I was holding up a cricket bat! :P LOL!

On the more serious side, I have to admit I certainly am one of the former - a stickler for correct British English grammar and syntax (except of course in appropriate proper dialect), and against vulgar Americanisms and the like. I absolutely *hate* things such as people starting sentences (and just about every sentence!) with an inappropriate "So....", using a totally meaningless and inappropriate expression "like" to fill out phrases, and mis-use of the expression "for sure" in totally inappropriate contexts where e.g. "certainly" would be the correct expression to use. So those like, for sure, make me like want to reach for a gun for sure! ;) No wait - a bazooka would be better. :P

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:12 am 
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Vlad wrote:
If it is not too much trouble Jorge, can you add a new option for colorize? Now we have: none, user selected color and dominant color of background. A "use window accent color" option in windows 10, would be nice...


Done.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:07 am 
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winstep wrote:

Quote:
Vlad wrote:
If it is not too much trouble Jorge, can you add a new option for colorize? Now we have: none, user selected color and dominant color of background. A "use window accent color" option in windows 10, would be nice...


Done.


Thank you Jorge!


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