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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:17 pm 
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winstep wrote:
DesertDwarf wrote:
I presume at the time the menu is drawn, it knows (or it can know) if the context menu is relative to a vertical or horizontal shelf. Use that!

Yeah, I like this one, although 'normal' would be full width, since that is the default. But it still makes sense and that is what matters. :)

Ric, the 'other Ric' got one on you this time. ;)

Damn! Hey Ric, how very dare you!? ;) But, well done.

I was thinking along the lines of a single toggle for both H and V, and 'normal' somehow sounds queer. What is 'normal' width/height? 'Standard' would fall into the same trap for me. Also, is 'Expand' and 'Restore' really appropriate if full width/height remains as default? Nope, not here it isn't, sorry to rain on both your parades. ;)

How about a 'compromise' then - 'Enable'/'Disable' Full 'Width'/'Height'? (Alternatively, one could say 'Use'/Do Not Use', 'Engage'/'Disengage'.... Gets a bit silly there and thereafter. ;) )

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:27 pm 
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Well... can't believe it's finally done. Just a couple of lose ends left to tie.

I think this is also the perfect time to implement that 'Drawers' idea I have been talking about, since Drawers are basically just a 'sub-set' of a full blown Shelf. I'll share my initial concept below and you guys please feel free to discuss it and add some ideas:

So what is a 'Drawer'? A Drawer is essentially a *single tab* and *single icon row* Shelf. A bit like a dock but with a tab header/handle at the edge.

With the new vertical Shelves you could almost make a Drawer from a Shelf just by adjusting a few settings, but not quite, and it's this 'not quite' that make Drawers relevant.

So, first picture this: with a Drawer attached to the left screen edge, when it's collapsed all you see is the thin vertical space used by the Drawer tab handle (with the tab title) - just like a collapsed vertical Shelf. But here is the first major difference: when you click on the tab, the Drawer will automatically expand to show *all* the icons in it (screen space allowing, of course). Picture an horizontal dock, but unlike horizontal docks which expand vertically from the screen edge when hidden (downwards or upwards), these expand horizontally.

Something similar could be obtained with a Shelf by creating a new vertical Shelf with a single tab and then setting the minimum number of visible icon rows so that all the icons in the Shelf would be shown when you expand it. But this is not the same as doing it *automatically*, and if you set this number to, say, 10, the Shelf would still expand to show 10 icon cells even if 9 of them are empty.

Another advantage of Drawers is that they use the same themes as Shelves, so they are compatible with all existing themes out there from the get go, BUT, since they only show a single row of icons, I can ignore the vertical icon spacing values, which will make them a bit thinner.

Now, here is what is mostly up for debate, something which I haven't decided on yet:

I can limit Drawers to only hold Regular tabs (just like docks, but with the advantage of being able to display icon text below the icons - something you can disable, remember). If I do this, the Drawer can automatically shrink icon spacing so it always fits on the available screen regardless of how many icons it holds (down to a limit of 16x16 icons, of course).

If I don't do this and allow Drawers to feature different tab types, then the Drawer must feature scroll buttons like the Shelf does and icon size will be fixed. On the other hand, it will be able to show just about anything the Shelf does - but being single row it's not as suitable for that kind of thing.

So, what do you guys think?

Image

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:47 pm 
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winstep wrote:
I can limit Drawers to only hold Regular tabs (just like docks, but with the advantage of being able to display icon text below the icons - something you can disable, remember). If I do this, the Drawer can automatically shrink icon spacing so it always fits on the available screen regardless of how many icons it holds (down to a limit of 16x16 icons, of course).


I vote for this option. It seems to me that this would be a cleaner presentation.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:33 pm 
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techman wrote:
winstep wrote:
I can limit Drawers to only hold Regular tabs (just like docks, but with the advantage of being able to display icon text below the icons - something you can disable, remember). If I do this, the Drawer can automatically shrink icon spacing so it always fits on the available screen regardless of how many icons it holds (down to a limit of 16x16 icons, of course).


I vote for this option. It seems to me that this would be a cleaner presentation.

+1


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Well done, Jorge, congrats on getting it done.

As for the Drawers concept, option two would seem to be far more versatile and potentially useful so it gets my vote every time. (I.e., any type of tab.) Shouldn't a minimum icon size really be something more like 24 or even 32 in this day and age? Surely it's bad enough MS are still inflicting 16x16 icons on us in the systray.

Not so sure though whether 'Drawer' is really the best/most appropriate description. To me, it somehow conjures up the concept of a container for files, i.e., the same as folder or directory. (The drawer metaphor was used by some early unices IIRC as well as AmigaOS of course.) OTOH, a drawer is basically a container that you pull (draw) out of another, bigger, over-all container, so on that score too it doesn't quite work. However, can't think of an alternative name to suggest right now.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Well, I'm on the fence on this one. Technically there isn't much difference between doing it one way or the other (i.e.; amount of work will be the same).

On one hand limiting Drawers to be 'Regular' tab types is simpler - on the other hand, you're throwing a lot of potential functionality away. Perhaps I can come up with a way to have your cake and eat it too.

Having scroll buttons on Drawers wouldn't be a problem at all - they would be stuck at the bottom (left side) of the Drawer (i.e.; direct opposite side of the tab header) so they wouldn't take up any vertical space, just a tiny strip of horizontal space at the left edge of the drawer (assuming a Drawer docked to the left edge of the screen, of course).

So, this leaves the ability to have the Drawer shrink icon sizes automatically to fit as most content as possible on the screen - but this might as well simply be an extra option that you can turn on or off, no?

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:01 am 
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winstep wrote:
Well, I'm on the fence on this one. Technically there isn't much difference between doing it one way or the other (i.e.; amount of work will be the same).

On one hand limiting Drawers to be 'Regular' tab types is simpler - on the other hand, you're throwing a lot of potential functionality away. Perhaps I can come up with a way to have your cake and eat it too.

I always liked having my Kate and Edith too. :P What about having it as the first option to choose when configuring a 'Drawer'? I.e., 'Regular Tab Only'/All Tab Types. Would that be possible? Certainly seems the ideal compromise. I'd hate the idea of throwing away potential functionality.

winstep wrote:
Having scroll buttons on Drawers wouldn't be a problem at all....

So, this leaves the ability to have the Drawer shrink icon sizes automatically to fit as most content as possible on the screen - but this might as well simply be an extra option that you can turn on or off, no?

Yes! Definitely as an on/off option. Hate, hate, HATE tiny 16px icons. Useless. 16px can work for gadgets, but icons - blegh! :)

Oh, just thought of an alt. name for 'Drawer' - how about 'Tray'?

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:20 am 
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Congrats to you Jorge for pulling this off!

I also prefer the "not limit functionality" option.
If what Nexter says about having the option to choose between simple regular tab and full tab it is not so hard to implement, I think that can open some posibilities: you can have some configured to be regular tabs and some other to use the more advanced options.
Also having the ability to scroll by clicking on arrows: why not use only mouse wheel?


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:49 am 
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I'm all for cleanliness and options.
  1. Togglable scroll features
  2. Minimum icon width
  3. Offer peanut butter to make them happy (* don't offer to people with peanut allergies)


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:56 am 
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Vlad wrote:
Congrats to you Jorge for pulling this off!

.... Also having the ability to scroll by clicking on arrows: why not use only mouse wheel?

Mouse wheel is very cool Vlad, but only where it's available. (I know of some folks who still do not have a wheely rodent! And of course some laptops don't have - at least, a decent - wheel emulation, though personally I always use a little ball-less, tail-less rat with mine) Also, bear in mind it could be very easy to over-shoot when in a hurry and if there are more than two rows. We already have it in the standard shelf anyway (and NextSTART menus, or almost anywhere that can be scrolled) of course, and I use it all the time and sometimes it does happen to me.
DesertDwarf wrote:
I'm all for cleanliness and options.
  1. Togglable scroll features
  2. Minimum icon width
  3. Offer peanut butter to make them happy (* don't offer to people with peanut allergies)

No no no! Do offer to people with peanut/nut allergies - at least, when they don't pay up! :P ::evil grin::

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:09 pm 
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Vlad wrote:
Also having the ability to scroll by clicking on arrows: why not use only mouse wheel?


Besides what Ric said, you also need the scroll buttons when using drag & drop to add items to a Shelf, to make the Shelf scroll (by hovering over the buttons) if the icon row you want to drop the icon(s) into is not currently visible.

Anyway, here we go: for now I prefer to keep this beta private, only downloadable from here instead of being picked up by the Update Manager.

WARNING: Make a backup of your WorkShelf settings BEFORE running setup. If something goes horribly wrong, setup always makes a backup copy of the previous version exe files in the \Winstep\Versions\ folder in Public Documents.

There were MAJOR and EXTENSIVE changes made to the code, and although I did my best to filter out and fix any bugs, the probability of those occurring (this time with potential corruption of the contents of your Shelves and Docks) is much higher than normal, so install the new beta at your own peril. :-P

Scared, already? LOL

Ok, for those brave enough you can download

the beta of Winstep Xtreme v18.7 from HERE

and the beta of Nexus Ultimate v18.7 from HERE.

Exit all running Winstep applications, then unzip and run setup.

So, major new features in this beta: scalable shelves, multiple shelves support, vertical shelves support.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:59 am 
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winstep wrote:
.... Anyway, here we go: for now I prefer to keep this beta private, only downloadable from here instead of being picked up by the Update Manager.

WARNING: Make a backup of your WorkShelf settings BEFORE running setup. If something goes horribly wrong, setup always makes a backup copy of the previous version exe files in the \Winstep\Versions\ folder in Public Documents.

There were MAJOR and EXTENSIVE changes made to the code, and although I did my best to filter out and fix any bugs, the probability of those occurring (this time with potential corruption of the contents of your Shelves and Docks) is much higher than normal, so install the new beta at your own peril. :-P

Scared, already? LOL

Absofragginlutely sh**less! :P

winstep wrote:
Ok, for those brave enough you can download....

.... So, major new features in this beta: scalable shelves, multiple shelves support, vertical shelves support.

Cute. :) Well done Jorge. Would now be a good-ish time to remind you about my Winstep queries and comments?

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:20 am 
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winstep wrote:

Quote:
There were MAJOR and EXTENSIVE changes made to the code, and although I did my best to filter out and fix any bugs, the probability of those occurring (this time with potential corruption of the contents of your Shelves and Docks) is much higher than normal, so install the new beta at your own peril. :-P



More precise:

Quote:
potential corruption of the contents of your Shelves and Docks


Does that mean I have to make a backup of the real files and folders that the shortcuts from the shelves/docks point to? How about the the "Folder Tab" type? Are any chances that those files to be afected?


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:42 am 
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Vlad wrote:
Does that mean I have to make a backup of the real files and folders that the shortcuts from the shelves/docks point to? How about the the "Folder Tab" type? Are any chances that those files to be afected?


LOL, NO!!! Just a backup of WorkShelf settings. :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.5?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:31 am 
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found one issue, upon loading backed up settings(saved with an old version) workshelf settings dont load right:

workshelf as it should be:
http://prntscr.com/k2rvd1
Image
workshelf upon loading settings:
http://prntscr.com/k2rlvu
Image
(along with some bounce effects which should e disabled)

this doesnt happen when loading settings made with the new version

ps apologies for not inserting images but cant seem to find the proper link even with view image info


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