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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:15 am 
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And, to keep more in line with the current agenda, in this case, the taskbar. This may perhaps been mentioned before, although I couldn't find anything, but - when having the Net mod in the taskbar and the taskbar is vertical but then switched to horizontal, the two net icons remain one below the other and therefor the bottom one is not in full visible range. Only thing to be done to correct this is reloading the theme.

Incidentally, the taskbar to me seems to be a far better place for mods than shelf or (least of all!) dock, btw. Superb job, Jorge, capturing mods to the TB. I'm warming to the taskbar more and more, and it will soon play a major part in both my personal and theme development setups, I hope. Hangover from my NeXT days, resisting the taskbar for so long. :)

:Edit: Oops, forgot. In at least one of my currently worked on themes, the task button mouse-over and active bitmaps are quite distinctive in that they follow the linear pattern of the taskbar background, they look extremely ugly/out of place when the taskbar is vertical. Is there perhaps a setting already for vertical images for the m-o and active tasks buttons that I missed? (I do have TasksVM and TasksVA bitmaps.) Or don't we have that atm? If not, that would be a great addition for the vertical taskbar. (Do. for Hotspot and Sysback.) :/Edit:

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:25 am 
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DanDaBear wrote:
Um! Where exactly is the setting to colorize icons? (or is it still pending?)


Still pending. It will be in the Appearance tab of the dock/shelf/drawer Properties dialog once the new release is out.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:56 am 
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nexter wrote:
The first solution is what I was going to suggest - that grid is damn ugly anyway, IMO, and with centred icons it doesn't even make sense.


The grid is not damn ugly.

Well, it is sometimes, but only because most skinners are not defining it as originally intended: it is supposed to be a *subtle* 3D grid (keyword here being SUBTLE) where the 3D effect is achieved by using colors similar to the one's used in the Shelf background together with a darker shadow color.

Instead what do most skinners do? Probably because they don't use it themselves, they define the grid as thick solid WHITE lines, no 3D effect AT ALL. That looks AWFUL with almost every theme.

I already pleaded several times for them NOT to do that, that doing it that way was NEVER the intention, but my requests always seem to fall on deaf hears.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:05 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
The first solution is what I was going to suggest - that grid is damn ugly anyway, IMO, and with centred icons it doesn't even make sense.

The grid is not damn ugly.

Well, it is sometimes, but only because most skinners are not defining it as originally intended: it is supposed to be a *subtle* 3D grid (keyword here being SUBTLE) where the 3D effect is achieved by using colors similar to the one's used in the Shelf background together with a darker shadow color.

Instead what do most skinners do? Probably because they don't use it themselves, they define the grid as thick solid WHITE lines, no 3D effect AT ALL. That looks AWFUL with almost every theme.

I already pleaded several times for them NOT to do that, that doing it that way was NEVER the intention, but my requests always seem to fall on deaf hears.

Ah right, with you there Jorge. Didn't even realise it had become skinnable so I'll have to add that pronto - according to your guidelines of course. Then it certainly wouldn't look bad. Only question is, how? Alas, there's no ref. to this in the old (9.5) User Guide. So, what bitmaps would be required, in what form? And are there any configuration entries to be added to *.wsw?

Any hints/help would be greatly appreciated. As would any comments/hints etc. re: my last two posts. MTIA Jorge.

:Edit: The 3D effect for the Grid makes sense, which is why ~I wouldn't really do it any other way. Likewise, matching colours of course. (Esp. important in my own-art based themes.) But other than that I should have added that in general I've very much gone off 3D effects except where necessary/unavoidable. I like to keep as much as possible in my themes in a flux, open, transitioning, often translucent (more and more so), using optical illusions (e.g., colours can be quite misleading and also depend on your stage in life as our colour perception shifts - often quite drastically - with age) etc. etc. :/Edit:

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:39 am 
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nexter wrote:
Ah right, with you there Jorge. Didn't even realise it had become skinnable so I'll have to add that pronto - according to your guidelines of course. Then it certainly wouldn't look bad. Only question is, how? Alas, there's no ref. to this in the old (9.5) User Guide. So, what bitmaps would be required, in what form? And are there any configuration entries to be added to *.wsw?


No bitmaps required. All you need to do is set proper colors for ActiveFrameColor1 and ActiveFrameColor2.

nexter wrote:
Any hints/help would be greatly appreciated. As would any comments/hints etc. re: my last two posts. MTIA Jorge.


You guys (especially you, Ric lol) have been so prolific at writing lately that I get here and sometimes I almost have a full novel to read. I have to balance my time between a lot of things, and frequently what you ask me requires me to spend some time looking those answers up and/or makes me unfocus from whatever I am currently doing.

So, when I start to get a bit overwhelmed I also start to automatically prioritize what I reply to immediately and what I leave for later... of course, sometimes when 'later' comes I already forgot that a post is still there waiting for my reply.

That is why, if you pay attention you will notice that, from time to time and as schedule allows, I 'sweep' over the forums replying to particular questions or issues that have been left unanswered for days.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:50 am 
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And here you go: icons in a Shelf can now be Left Justified, Centered, or Right Justified.

When set to Centered, the icon grid is not displayed. I also shuffled a few things around in the Appearance tab of the Shelf Properties dialog (and you can also see the new 'Icon Color Settings' button there).

Image

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:44 pm 
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winstep wrote:
And here you go: icons in a Shelf can now be Left Justified, Centered, or Right Justified.

When set to Centered, the icon grid is not displayed. I also shuffled a few things around in the Appearance tab of the Shelf Properties dialog (and you can also see the new 'Icon Color Settings' button there).

Image

To be honest, no like. :) That shelf could occupy almost 50% less screen estate. Shocking! :P

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:59 pm 
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nexter wrote:
To be honest, no like. :) That shelf could occupy almost 50% less screen estate. Shocking! :P


It's not a functional option. It's a visual option.

Plus you don't know about the other tabs. :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:24 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Ah right, with you there Jorge. Didn't even realise it had become skinnable so I'll have to add that pronto - according to your guidelines of course. Then it certainly wouldn't look bad. Only question is, how? Alas, there's no ref. to this in the old (9.5) User Guide. So, what bitmaps would be required, in what form? And are there any configuration entries to be added to *.wsw?

No bitmaps required. All you need to do is set proper colors for ActiveFrameColor1 and ActiveFrameColor2.

Simple enough! Thanks Jorge.
winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Any hints/help would be greatly appreciated. As would any comments/hints etc. re: my last two posts. MTIA Jorge.

You guys (especially you, Ric lol) have been so prolific at writing lately that I get here and sometimes I almost have a full novel to read. I have to balance my time between a lot of things, and frequently what you ask me requires me to spend some time looking those answers up and/or makes me unfocus from whatever I am currently doing.

Well Jorge, my own prolific posting has been mainly and overwhelmingly in trying to help others etc. and some in relation to new stuff (e.g., new trash) that I've been doing and would like to do or have partly done (e.g. anti-clockwise clocks/24-hr clocks), with comparatively very few queries and some of those could be answered with something like a simple "can/can't/won't be done". :) A few others concern things that aren't working properly or at least seem not to, while a few concern problems with theming that I don't seem to be able to overcome on my own in the absence of a manual or TB. Most of these go back several months (when you asked me to remind you when the then current update schedule was more or less done, others (e.g. https://forums.winstep.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10773), over a month old also, you said you'd answer sometime later but then forget. Which is easy to do given your workload, I do understand that.

OTOH, we get a lot of queries not only from newbies but even sometimes longer-term users that they could easily have found out for themselves if they had explored all the various options in the Prefs etc. and/or in FAQs/Tutorials etc. - exasperating!
winstep wrote:
So, when I start to get a bit overwhelmed I also start to automatically prioritize what I reply to immediately and what I leave for later... of course, sometimes when 'later' comes I already forgot that a post is still there waiting for my reply.

Yes, understood of course. And that is why I think the occasional reminder from me can surely not be out of order. :)
winstep wrote:
That is why, if you pay attention you will notice that, from time to time and as schedule allows, I 'sweep' over the forums replying to particular questions or issues that have been left unanswered for days.

Which is making things even harder for yourself Jorge - why not make a quick note of things that need answering and tick them off as you do them, and then you don't have to sweep and re-sweep forums again or forget. Just a suggestion, trying to help. :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:34 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
To be honest, no like. :) That shelf could occupy almost 50% less screen estate. Shocking! :P

It's not a functional option. It's a visual option.

Plus you don't know about the other tabs. :)

Yes, of course to the first. And to the second - true, the other tabs could be crammed full. :)

My own preference has always been to keep the shelf as small as possible and no wider than a max. of 6-8 icons wide. Just as I'd never overload a dock - 8-10 icons are quite enough for the most important apps etc. there.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:40 pm 
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nexter wrote:
winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
To be honest, no like. :) That shelf could occupy almost 50% less screen estate. Shocking! :P

It's not a functional option. It's a visual option.

Plus you don't know about the other tabs. :)

Yes, of course to the first. And to the second - true, the other tabs could be crammed full. :)

My own preference has always been to keep the shelf as small as possible and no wider than a max. of 6-8 icons wide. Just as I'd never overload a dock - 8-10 icons are quite enough for the most important apps etc. there.

you should see my own setup ric full of docks and shelf tabs
although when i have an tab that isnt full my own preference is to insert separators so i get 'justify' 'aligned' icons


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:22 pm 
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seeker wrote:
although when i have an tab that isnt full my own preference is to insert separators so i get 'justify' 'aligned' icons


Now you will no longer need to... :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:50 pm 
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seeker wrote:
nexter wrote:
My own preference has always been to keep the shelf as small as possible and no wider than a max. of 6-8 icons wide. Just as I'd never overload a dock - 8-10 icons are quite enough for the most important apps etc. there.

you should see my own setup ric full of docks and shelf tabs
although when i have an tab that isnt full my own preference is to insert separators so i get 'justify' 'aligned' icons

Eek! Couldn't live with that myself seeker. :) But, diff'rent strokes and all that.... :)

In my personal setup I have just one dock with 10 icons inc. control icon, clock and recycler (just a left-over from my NeXT days - don't really need the last two I suppose), with 5 sub-docks, some of which have a nested sub-dock in turn. In total, no more than say about 30, 35 icons.

Then, one single shelf, vertical now, taking up about 3/4 of the height of my laptop's lousy 1366x768 screen, with 6 tabs. One for more frequently used stuff, 3 for organising various projects, 1 for my LAN, and 1 for general documents. Apart from the first and the LAN tabs, the others are in a frequent state of flux.

Desktop modules, only clock (when it's one of mine - plus DanDaBear's excellent counterclockwise Rainmeter clock), recycler, moon (just because I like the moon and like to have the essential data available), and battery normally.

Tasklist and sys tray only until I can sort out the taskbar properly. Once I get that nailed, the dock will go and only be launched from QL when needed. I might also have the meter modules there. (TB, not QL of course.) Also hotspots for a couple of sub-menus. So that'll clean up my workspace even further. :)

Oh, and of course I have a couple of menus (although one is really a sub-menu of the main one) with a fair lot of sometimes nested sub-menus. Included there is a categorised folder for all the apps and utils etc. on the system (except for some of the feckin' Windows 10 shite that clutters the Win start menu and my feckin' drive!) which I constructed on my own partition.

But the whole setup may change a fair bit soon as I may also use a few additional drawers or small single tab shelves to allow for easier work on my various projects.

My theme development setup is of course what I consider a bit messy. It's where I assemble my themes and test them before allowing them on my personal setup.

I'm also working on putting together yet another setup (in yet another user a/c) for final "grooming" and packaging of themes plus screen grabs. This will in terms of content of shelf, dock and menu fairly closely follow the Winstep default config, if not in terms of appearance. :)

I like things lean and clean. ;)
winstep wrote:
seeker wrote:
although when i have an tab that isnt full my own preference is to insert separators so i get 'justify' 'aligned' icons

Now you will no longer need to... :)

Nope, you certainly won't. :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:30 pm 
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winstep wrote:
seeker wrote:
although when i have an tab that isnt full my own preference is to insert separators so i get 'justify' 'aligned' icons


Now you will no longer need to... :)

actualy i will because i prefer
[@@@ @@ @@]
to
[ @@@@@@@ ]


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:03 am 
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Hello to everyone! I have not been so active lately, all I had time was to check the posts on my phone while going from one place to another.

I want to congratulate you Jorge. You did a really good job with the latest update. All those changes in the code and still everything is stable and fast! thumbs up



Small bug, I think? When you use the Media Player icon, the right click option for changing playlist is doing nothing, if a song is playing or it is paused. After clicking stop, you can change the playlist as expected. When I say "as expected" I mean this how I expect things to work. Please tell me if I am wrong.


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