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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:05 pm 
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seeker wrote:
because showing subdock perpendicular (or horizontal) would make it overlap with the second dock under its parent


The man of a thousand docks...

... plus one. lol :P

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:22 pm 
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winstep wrote:
seeker wrote:
because showing subdock perpendicular (or horizontal) would make it overlap with the second dock under its parent


The man of a thousand docks...

... plus one. lol :P

whats the point of having ability to have multiple docks if one isnt going to use it :D


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:50 pm 
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seeker wrote:
whats the point of having ability to have multiple docks if one isnt going to use it :D


Ok, I will leave that, and the sub-dock opening animations, as 'per dock'.

'Disable final boing effect' goes global too.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:12 pm 
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winstep wrote:
You might have noticed that the Shelf supports a 'icon grid' (those lines making a grid around the icons in the Shelf). When the theme specifies the colors of this grid properly, it looks really good (IMO) - the intention is for the grid to have a nice and *subtle* 3D look to it.

Unfortunately one of the things that ALWAYS pissed me off is how nearly every skinner doesn't bother specifying those colors properly (perhaps because they've turned off the grid themselves) and so they use the same color for the two colors the effect requires. Instead of a nice and subtle 3D grid you then get thick and very UGLY solid black or solid white lines around the icons.

It looks so awful like that it would have been a thousand times better not to have the grid enabled in the first place (probably the reason those skinners disabled the grid themselves).

Some old themes also did not support the grid as the settings required to specify the two colors did not yet exist back then - in that case the theme simply does not display a grid.

So today I decided to fix this sad state of affairs once and for all. This not only allows a grid to be shown on themes that do not support it, as it fixes the MESS the skinners made by overriding their settings for the grid whenever it detects that the two colors are the same.

It actually wasn't easy to implement this, as the grid needs to match the theme automatically, and does this based on several different factors. But I'm pretty pleased with the results so far.


And just to show the difference (real life example, screenshots of the same theme posted at Wincustomize by a Winstep user before and after the beta):

Before (flat and ugly):
Attachment:
IconGridBefore.jpg
IconGridBefore.jpg [ 64.71 KiB | Viewed 3397 times ]

After (much better, subtle 3D effect as intended):
Attachment:
IconGridAfter.jpg
IconGridAfter.jpg [ 56.23 KiB | Viewed 3397 times ]


As you can see the application now auto-corrects previous 'mistakes' made by skinners, and does so automatically picking matching colors wherever possible.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:00 pm 
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Excellent concept, well done. Totally agree that the grid should be done by skinners, and even though I myself never have and never shall use it I do, since you raised the issue, add it to all my themes. Though not always in 'suble matching colours', sometimes contrasting ones work better.

Now, wouldn't it be nice Jorge if you could do something like that with NextSTART title bars and title bar gadgets? Say, if not at least one icon is defined, the default ones are added? Mind you, this could be a bit of a double-edged sword in that e.g. I have one theme that doesn't have any on the initial main menu but does have them on all sub-menus. So perhaps if the programme detects them on sub-menus, it could just leave things alone? :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:23 pm 
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nexter wrote:
Excellent concept, well done. Totally agree that the grid should be done by skinners, and even though I myself never have and never shall use it I do, since you raised the issue, add it to all my themes. Though not always in 'suble matching colours', sometimes contrasting ones work better.


Yeah, but it's the skinners responsibility to take care of that - in any case, this auto-correction only takes place if the skinner made both grid colors the same (which is what they were doing all the time and made the whole thing so ugly - the above example is not even the worse of it). If they are already different, no auto-correction takes place.

nexter wrote:
Now, wouldn't it be nice Jorge if you could do something like that with NextSTART title bars and title bar gadgets?


Alas, not the same thing at all. Most themes don't even have menu title bars, as you know.

This is actually something that always bugged me in relation to detachable sub-menus. If you're a new user and you detach a sub-menu with no close button in the title bar by accident (or even no title bar at all, as you can still detach the sub-menu by dragging the top edge), you probably won't know how to close it (right click the title bar or the top menu edge). It will remain open until you restart NextSTART.

I've even entertained the idea of showing a 'ghost' close button over the menu's top right corner on mouseover for detached menus with no close buttons, like (I think) Windows Sidebar Gadgets did. Either way, this would be for detached sub-menus only.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:29 pm 
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And talking about detachable, I think it would perhaps be a good idea to create a new 'Detach' sound event?

Would be played when you detach a Grid Stack or a sub-menu - at least this way the user would know *something* unusual just happened (and that the reason their Grid Stack doesn't close automatically when they now click somewhere else is not because of a bug).

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:58 pm 
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winstep wrote:
And talking about detachable, I think it would perhaps be a good idea to create a new 'Detach' sound event?


And done.

Added new sound event to NextSTART too, so it also plays when you detach a NextSTART sub-menu.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:16 am 
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Ok, I just started to implement the 'Search' (more like 'Filter') function on Shelves, Drawers and Grid Stacks.

You type something and the content shown is filtered by whatever you have just typed - works well. Backspace deletes the last character you typed, ESC clears the filter buffer.

Now, although typing blindly does work, it's not optimal, especially if you press the wrong key. So I need a way to display whatever is currently on the filter buffer so the user can at least see what he is typing.

Since there is no space on the Shelf itself, a solution would perhaps be to make it appear as a label tooltip (like the labels you get when you mouse over an item in the dock) outside of the Shelf/Drawer/Grid Stack. Probably something that becomes visible when you type and then slowly fades away.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:06 am 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Excellent concept, well done. Totally agree that the grid should be done by skinners, .... sometimes contrasting ones work better.

Yeah, but it's the skinners responsibility to take care of that .... If they are already different, no auto-correction takes place.

Indeed. And there are other things that skinners ought to include, such as, among others, matching histo colour for the in-shelf meter modules, sound scheme, etc.
winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Now, wouldn't it be nice Jorge if you could do something like that with NextSTART title bars and title bar gadgets?

Alas, not the same thing at all. Most themes don't even have menu title bars, as you know.

Indeed. Absence of a title bar and at least a close button makes me pass a theme like a full bus. Now Jorge, if you put in some sort of ghost title bar that makes the theme look really ugly where a theme doesn't have any, you'd very quickly have skinners seeing the error of their ways. ;)
winstep wrote:
This is actually something that always bugged me in relation to detachable sub-menus. If you're a new user and you detach a sub-menu with no close button in the title bar by accident (or even no title bar at all, as you can still detach the sub-menu by dragging the top edge), you probably won't know how to close it (right click the title bar or the top menu edge). It will remain open until you restart NextSTART.

I've even entertained the idea of showing a 'ghost' close button over the menu's top right corner on mouseover for detached menus with no close buttons, like (I think) Windows Sidebar Gadgets did. Either way, this would be for detached sub-menus only.

Excellent idea! I second that. As I'm sure you'll recall, NeXT had no gadgets on main menu title bars but did have a close one on detached sub-menus. (But of course on NeXT, these menus were not custom ones but those of whatever running app had the focus.)
winstep wrote:
winstep wrote:
And talking about detachable, I think it would perhaps be a good idea to create a new 'Detach' sound event?

And done.

Added new sound event to NextSTART too, so it also plays when you detach a NextSTART sub-menu.

Great idea. Means a bugger of a lot of work adding that to all my themes, but I'll do it bit by bit. While you're at it Jorge, how about a sound for exiting Xtreme/Workshelf/NextSTART? And a start up one? Oh and what about that clock chime that chimes the actual hour, which we discussed some time ago?

Of course, not everybody actually uses sound. There are times when I prefer to work silently. But I always endeavor to include a sound scheme with every theme, inc. for NextSTART. I must have thousands of sounds in my archives, and certainly a few hundred at hand as it were. (And the web's got zillions of free sounds.)


:Edit: And speaking of title bars and gadgets, did we have mouse-over on these in the distant past? (I've asked this before but no response....) And, is there any chance of adding this (again?) at some point Jorge? Might also serve as an incentive to skinners to use them. Perhaps. :/Edit:

:Edith 2: This is the thread were we discussed the clock chiming the actual hour : [url]https://forums.winstep.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10704[url] :/Edit 2: ;)

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Last edited by nexter on Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:09 am 
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winstep wrote:
Ok, I just started to implement the 'Search' (more like 'Filter') function on Shelves, Drawers and Grid Stacks.

Anything to prolong not having to get stuck into that mythical beast that dare not speak its name, eh Jorge? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:26 am 
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winstep wrote:
Ok, I just started to implement the 'Search' (more like 'Filter') function on Shelves, Drawers and Grid Stacks.

You type something and the content shown is filtered by whatever you have just typed - works well. Backspace deletes the last character you typed, ESC clears the filter buffer.

Now, although typing blindly does work, it's not optimal, especially if you press the wrong key. So I need a way to display whatever is currently on the filter buffer so the user can at least see what he is typing.

Since there is no space on the Shelf itself, a solution would perhaps be to make it appear as a label tooltip (like the labels you get when you mouse over an item in the dock) outside of the Shelf/Drawer/Grid Stack. Probably something that becomes visible when you type and then slowly fades away.


Good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:35 pm 
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oOSGearOo wrote:
Initially your GS displays the icon's correctly, as shown in another video they go to different places. Then on refresh, 'I dont know if its because they are named the same'!, you go and icon them the same, again no biggie the destination still works.


Fixed this too.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:15 pm 
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winstep wrote:
Ok, I just started to implement the 'Search' (more like 'Filter') function on Shelves, Drawers and Grid Stacks.

You type something and the content shown is filtered by whatever you have just typed - works well. Backspace deletes the last character you typed, ESC clears the filter buffer.

Now, although typing blindly does work, it's not optimal, especially if you press the wrong key. So I need a way to display whatever is currently on the filter buffer so the user can at least see what he is typing.

Since there is no space on the Shelf itself, a solution would perhaps be to make it appear as a label tooltip (like the labels you get when you mouse over an item in the dock) outside of the Shelf/Drawer/Grid Stack. Probably something that becomes visible when you type and then slowly fades away.


And here it is in action:
Attachment:
SearchFilter.jpg
SearchFilter.jpg [ 76.8 KiB | Viewed 3337 times ]


Using the tooltip was one way to do it, but I didn't think it was evident enough, an actual Search bar would be better. So I searched the web for some inspiration and came up with the above.

It fades in above the Shelf whenever you type something.

The green actually glows, so you can't miss it when it's active. If you click outside the Shelf, the Search Bar fades out, and fades back in when you click on the Shelf again (i.e.; the Search Bar is only visible when the Shelf it belongs to has the focus).

If what you type already produces no results, it beeps at you and doesn't let you type anymore. As you type, the contents of the tab are automatically updated to reflect the filter. Switch to another tab and the filter is reset and the Search Bar fades out (it also 'self-destructs' if the 'owner' Shelf is no longer on the screen, e.g.; it has been disabled or something).

Also going to implement some smooth change position routines so it moves with the owner Shelf, or for when you switch from one Shelf with an active filter to another Shelf also with an active filter.

NOW: for technical reasons, making this work with Regular tabs is problematic. I can get it to work, of course, but it's a lot of trouble. So, the question is: should the Search Bar only be available on non-Regular tabs? Or that would be confusing/a bad thing?

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:33 pm 
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winstep wrote:
winstep wrote:
Ok, I just started to implement the 'Search' (more like 'Filter') function on Shelves, Drawers and Grid Stacks....

And here it is in action:
Attachment:
SearchFilter.jpg


Using the tooltip was one way to do it, but I didn't think it was evident enough, an actual Search bar would be better. So I searched the web for some inspiration and came up with the above.

It fades in above the Shelf whenever you type something.

The green actually glows, so you can't miss it when it's active. If you click outside the Shelf, the Search Bar fades out, and fades back in when you click on the Shelf again (i.e.; the Search Bar is only visible when the Shelf it belongs to has the focus).

If what you type already produces no results, it beeps at you. As you type, the contents of the tab are automatically updated to reflect the filter. Switch to another tab and the filter is reset and the Search Bar fades out (it also 'self-destructs' if the 'owner' Shelf is no longer on the screen, e.g.; it has been disabled or something).

Also going to implement some smooth change position routines so it moves with the owner Shelf, or for when you switch from one Shelf with an active filter to another Shelf also with an active filter.

NOW: for technical reasons, making this work with Regular tabs is problematic. I can get it to work, of course, but it's a lot of trouble. So, the question is: should the Search Bar only be available on non-Regular tabs? Or that would be confusing/a bad thing?

Bloody heck Jorge, this whole thing is fast approaching FileViewer proportions! ;) But, err, well done, although personally don't have use for it. :

However, if it's not available on regular tabs, it's got its hands tied behind its back in my view. Surely regular tabs are about the most commonly used ones? I myself certainly use them almost exclusively. The only exception is a Network Connections tab. Everything else that's available is better kept in menus AFAIC.

See how quickly a simple, quick-and-easy-to-implement thing can get very complicated? ;)

But hey, it's OK, *anything* to avoid having to think about that mythical beast whose name we dare no longer speak. :P LOL!

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