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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:45 pm 
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nexter wrote:
See how quickly a simple, quick-and-easy-to-implement thing can get very complicated? ;)


Oh I already knew it would be complicated.

I guess you're right about the Regular tabs - my reasoning is that a Search Filter feature is only really useful when you have TONS of files/icons in a tab, and that is not something that usually happens on Regular tabs.

On the other had, I'm going to make the Search Bar automatically select the first filtered item, so it can also be used as a way to quickly launch an application using the keyboard (switch to a new tab, type first few letters of the application, press ENTER to launch - or use the arrows to select in the filtered list, press ENTER).

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:01 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
See how quickly a simple, quick-and-easy-to-implement thing can get very complicated? ;)


Oh I already knew it would be complicated.

I guess you're right about the Regular tabs - my reasoning is that a Search Filter feature is only really useful when you have TONS of files/icons in a tab, and that is not something that usually happens on Regular tabs.

On the other had, I'm going to make the Search Bar automatically select the first filtered item, so it can also be used as a way to quickly launch an application using the keyboard (switch to a new tab, type first few letters of the application, press ENTER to launch - or use the arrows to select in the filtered list, press ENTER).

Sounds neat. :) And yes, that's likely to be right re: regular tabs not having tons of icons. (I think about 30 is the maximum I tend to have, some tabs as few as half a dozen perhaps.) But then, let's face it, shelves were never really intended to have 'tons of icons'. More than docks, certainly, but tons? I tried the Control Panel tab once, and that's already more than a handful (not numerically speaking but figuratively) AFAIC. :) Things like folders etc. are far easier to check out with a menu. It's what we have NextSTART for, thank goodness. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:06 pm 
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nexter wrote:
But then, let's face it, shelves were never really intended to have 'tons of icons'. More than docks, certainly, but tons? I tried the Control Panel tab once, and that's already more than a handful (not numerically speaking but figuratively) AFAIC. :)


I don't agree, unless you are forgetting that you can fully expand the Shelf simply by double clicking the tab header. :) At that point, the Shelf becomes not much different than a folder in Explorer.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:44 pm 
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winstep wrote:
Since there is no space on the Shelf itself, a solution would perhaps be to make it appear as a label tooltip (like the labels you get when you mouse over an item in the dock) outside of the Shelf/Drawer/Grid Stack. Probably something that becomes visible when you type and then slowly fades away.


Sounds cool looks ok to, I assume it follows the skin!? ;)

winstep wrote:
NOW: for technical reasons, making this work with Regular tabs is problematic. I can get it to work, of course, but it's a lot of trouble. So, the question is: should the Search Bar only be available on non-Regular tabs? Or that would be confusing/a bad thing?

My concern is will it be available on stacks and nexus docks? :P

As Nexter said available on everything or along those lines.

Mythical beast is that what its called now!!!!! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:47 pm 
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oOSGearOo wrote:
Sounds cool looks ok to, I assume it follows the skin!? ;)


You assume wrong. :) It's not skinnable.

oOSGearOo wrote:
My concern is will it be available on stacks and nexus docks? :P


On Grid Stacks and Drawers yes, on docks definitely not, wouldn't even make ANY sense to make it available there since you can always see every item in a dock at once.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:53 pm 
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winstep wrote:
oOSGearOo wrote:
Sounds cool looks ok to, I assume it follows the skin!? ;)


You assume wrong. :) It's not skinnable.

oOSGearOo wrote:
My concern is will it be available on stacks and nexus docks? :P


On Grid Stacks and Drawers yes, on docks definitely not, wouldn't even make ANY sense to make it available there since you can always see every item in a dock at once.

Alright a plain glass zoomer style Shelf with a big black and green filter/searcher ho hum!! :roll: :roll:

In that case better be option to disable the feature. :idea:

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:28 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
But then, let's face it, shelves were never really intended to have 'tons of icons'. More than docks, certainly, but tons? I tried the Control Panel tab once, and that's already more than a handful (not numerically speaking but figuratively) AFAIC. :)


I don't agree, unless you are forgetting that you can fully expand the Shelf simply by double clicking the tab header. :) At that point, the Shelf becomes not much different than a folder in Explorer.

Yes, sure you can if you like the mess of looking at a ton of icons. Having something like 250+ folders and/or files on a tab is taking things to the ridiculous. Use an Explorer window set to list or details, if you must have that many on display. That's what NeXT had the FileViewer for. And even that wouldn't show you them all at once, you'd have had to scroll. A lot. ;)

And you're right Jorge, fully expand the shelf and and it becomes very little different from a folder window in Explorer. (Ok, minor details like toolbars, menus etc. not there, but then there are context menus and more....) That's one of the things that keep me thinking Winstep Xtreme is more than halfway there to a FileViewer. :) (Except of course, to implement that and have it working smoothly and speedily wrt operations, it would need multithreading. Of course, DOpus 4.1 in Amiga emulation is as fast as the current Windows version of DOpus, and yet the Amiga OS wasn't multithreaded. But then it's a very simple, compact OS that does things extremely efficiently.)
oOSGearOo wrote:
Mythical beast is that what its called now!!!!! :lol:

It's been called that for a very long time, Steve. :) Or at least, 'semi-mythical' as even so it's a lot more recent than the original 'mythical beast', which was something like the NeXTSTEP FileViewer, a file manager. That had been planned originally, way back at the beginning of the programme, but in those days there were so many different file managers around that it made sense to concentrate on things like the shelf and dock first. And by now of course file managers are a much smaller market than they used to be, with less than a handful of decent ones left. WinBrowser, which was a NeXT FileViewer clone for Windows, had already bitten the dust in the early 2000s, and even my favourite file manager, Magellan Explorer, hasn't seen development for about a decade. Sad picture really.

But yeah, the newer 'mythical beast'.... We mustn't mention its name in front of Jorge, lest he turns into a pumpkin or something with his nerves totally shattered. :P

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:22 pm 
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nexter wrote:
But yeah, the newer 'mythical beast'.... We mustn't mention its name in front of Jorge, lest he turns into a pumpkin or something with his nerves totally shattered. :P


LOL. The Nexus dock was also a mythical beast for a very, very, long time. I always end up delivering though - hopefully still in this century. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:26 am 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
But yeah, the newer 'mythical beast'.... We mustn't mention its name in front of Jorge, lest he turns into a pumpkin or something with his nerves totally shattered. :P

LOL. The Nexus dock was also a mythical beast for a very, very, long time. I always end up delivering though - hopefully still in this century. :wink:

LOL! Well, this century would be good, because I think some of us might not see the next millennium. ;)

Hmm, NeXus wasn't really all that mythical and it wasn't so for that long really. ISTR that we also kept being tantalised with alpha screen grabs along the way, for quite a while. ;)

Anyway, we'll do our best to prevent you having to face 'The Beast' as long as possible Jorge. ;) And here to help is a little contribution of nagging and distracting toward that end from me. I've got several themes for which I have a vertical menu title bar, but studying my old (ancient!) themes that had one didn't shed the slightest bit of light on how to accomplish setting it up and setting it up so only the main menu gets the vertical title bar. I know it's now done with a sub theme, but what files would be in there, and how would the config be - I simply haven't a clue I have to confess. So any help would be hugely appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:44 am 
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oOSGearOo wrote:
Alright a plain glass zoomer style Shelf with a big black and green filter/searcher ho hum!! :roll: :roll:


It's part of the User Interface - it's not always on screen, it only appears when you want to search for something.

oOSGearOo wrote:
In that case better be option to disable the feature. :idea:


I added an option to disable Quick Search and also to give it a different color. :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:57 pm 
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nexter wrote:
I know it's now done with a sub theme, but what files would be in there, and how would the config be - I simply haven't a clue I have to confess. So any help would be hugely appreciated.


The Darkmatter Subspace theme that ships by default with Xtreme uses a sub-theme, have a look inside that theme's folder to see how it's done.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:40 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
I know it's now done with a sub theme, but what files would be in there, and how would the config be - I simply haven't a clue I have to confess. So any help would be hugely appreciated.

The Darkmatter Subspace theme that ships by default with Xtreme uses a sub-theme, have a look inside that theme's folder to see how it's done.

Thanks Jorge, will have another look at that - there's no vertical title bar there though, and I found it quite confusing first time round. (.wst files really can be very baffling, and everybody seems to have everything in a different order etc.) But I'm nothing if not persistent. ;)

After all, in the end did manage to figure out the twin NET module, and now all my themes have it in varying configurations. So, can't really be that much harder than that, can it. :)

One of the themes that simply must have the vertical title bar on the main menu is my Win 10 Productivity theme, previewed in another thread. (The one with the digital clock.)

:Edit: N.B. - Just noticed, the forum still thinks it's BST, when we've been back on GMT for a week or so now. Doesn't it adjust automagically? ;) :/Edit:

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:11 pm 
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nexter wrote:
:Edit: N.B. - Just noticed, the forum still thinks it's BST, when we've been back on GMT for a week or so now. Doesn't it adjust automagically? ;) :/Edit:


Well, in all these years I have never noticed that. The short answer is: no, it does not adjust automatically.

You need to click on 'PROFILE' at the top of the forums, then Board Preferences on the left side panel then set 'Summer Time/DST is in effect' to 'No'.

The board has no access to the user's system time, it only has access to the server's time.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:21 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
:Edit: N.B. - Just noticed, the forum still thinks it's BST, when we've been back on GMT for a week or so now. Doesn't it adjust automagically? ;) :/Edit:


Well, in all these years I have never noticed that. The short answer is: no, it does not adjust automatically.

You need to click on 'PROFILE' at the top of the forums, then Board Preferences on the left side panel then set 'Summer Time/DST is in effect' to 'No'.

The board has no access to the user's system time, it only has access to the server's time.

Right, done. :) You'd think the board should 'know it' from the time zone setting, but heck, small matter. Personally II wish they'd do away with Summer Time/Daylight Saving Time everywhere. It's a nonsense in this day and age.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:26 pm 
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winstep wrote:
oOSGearOo wrote:
Alright a plain glass zoomer style Shelf with a big black and green filter/searcher ho hum!! :roll: :roll:


It's part of the User Interface - it's not always on screen, it only appears when you want to search for something.

oOSGearOo wrote:
In that case better be option to disable the feature. :idea:


I added an option to disable Quick Search and also to give it a different color. :)

Are you releasing your project or considering another beta with all the fixes I have been wondering?

Edit this thread does seam to be growing and growing although I think its not all related to the next incarnation of Xtream/Nexus

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