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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:41 pm 
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oOSGearOo wrote:
Are you releasing your project or considering another beta with all the fixes I have been wondering?


Probably another beta, there's no hurry for the time being.

oOSGearOo wrote:
Edit this thread does seam to be growing and growing although I think its not all related to the next incarnation of Xtream/Nexus


Yeah, you can blame Mr.Ric over there for that, with his endless skinning-related questions. :P :D

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:43 pm 
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nexter wrote:
winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
I know it's now done with a sub theme, but what files would be in there, and how would the config be - I simply haven't a clue I have to confess. So any help would be hugely appreciated.

The Darkmatter Subspace theme that ships by default with Xtreme uses a sub-theme, have a look inside that theme's folder to see how it's done.

Thanks Jorge, will have another look at that - there's no vertical title bar there though, and I found it quite confusing first time round. (.wst files really can be very baffling, and everybody seems to have everything in a different order etc.) But I'm nothing if not persistent. ;)....

Just had a quick look at the Darkmatter theme itself to establish what differences there were in the menus. Holy crap, no wonder I never really looked at this theme - it's just about the worst of the lot! Wastes so much screen estate. Huge main menu title bar bit no title bar text or gadgets - that's why I would have passed it like a full bus ;) - and tiny title bar and minuscule menu text on sub-menus. Ugh, what crud! And you actually paid good money for this, Jorge!?

Ah well, anyway, I'm off to bed soon and then will spend maybe an hour checking the config files through. :) So at least it's good for one thing. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:50 pm 
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winstep wrote:
oOSGearOo wrote:
Are you releasing your project or considering another beta with all the fixes I have been wondering?


Probably another beta, there's no hurry for the time being.

oOSGearOo wrote:
Edit this thread does seam to be growing and growing although I think its not all related to the next incarnation of Xtream/Nexus


Yeah, you can blame Mr.Ric over there for that, with his endless skinning-related questions. :P :D


Hey Nexter whats the beef with the comments on skinning are you planning a similar release as with Jorge's !!?!! :lol: I suspect your just cant help yourself. I am stuck doing a 3000 word report along with other design principles for a website(UNI). Just having a brief rest.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:52 pm 
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winstep wrote:
oOSGearOo wrote:
Are you releasing your project or considering another beta with all the fixes I have been wondering?

Probably another beta, there's no hurry for the time being.
oOSGearOo wrote:
Edit this thread does seam to be growing and growing although I think its not all related to the next incarnation of Xtream/Nexus

Yeah, you can blame Mr.Ric over there for that, with his endless skinning-related questions. :P :D

LOL! Yeah, of course Jorge - if in doubt/need/whatever, blame me. ;)

If I'm asking these simple and simple-to-answer questions, it's only for two reasons -
    1) I get the feeling I won't live long enough to see 'The Beast' to let me complete skins. :P
    2) I'm only doing my bit to help you avoid having to face up to said 'The Beast'! ;) :P

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:53 pm 
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nexter wrote:
And you actually paid good money for this, Jorge!?


No. The Darkmatter theme was part of the HyperDesk suit of uxTheme themes and the Winstep version was made by them (The Skins Factory) with the goal of selling it as part of a bundle, I guess. When HyperDesk folded Jeff allowed me to use what they had done on it so far.

nexter wrote:
LOL! Yeah, of course Jorge - if in doubt/need/whatever, blame me. ;)


You're easy to blame. :P

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:04 pm 
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oOSGearOo wrote:
Hey Nexter whats the beef with the comments on skinning are you planning a similar release as with Jorge's !!?!! :lol: I suspect your just cant help yourself. I am stuck doing a 3000 word report along with other design principles for a website(UNI). Just having a brief rest.

See my post above, Steve. :)

The problem is, there's so much that's been added to Xtreme during my long hiatus and that's undocumented in terms of skinning of course, and not all of it is easy to figure out by itself even by an experienced skinner like me. And when I last made themes we still had the equivalent of a ThemeBuilder, so you rarely had to play around with the config files.

Oops, now I've done it! Mentioned the unmentionable, the thing that must not be named! Oh hell, let's just hope that Jorge hasn't turned into a pumpkin or something nasty with his nerves shattered to smithereens. :P

Sorry Jorge. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:09 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
And you actually paid good money for this, Jorge!?

No. The Darkmatter theme was part of the HyperDesk suit of uxTheme themes and the Winstep version was made by them (The Skins Factory) with the goal of selling it as part of a bundle, I guess. When HyperDesk folded Jeff allowed me to use what they had done on it so far.

Ah, that's good that at least it didn't cost anything. :)
winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
LOL! Yeah, of course Jorge - if in doubt/need/whatever, blame me. ;)

You're easy to blame. :P

Of course. What are old friends for, eh? Sigh! :D

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:01 pm 
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About sub grid stacks.

You mentioned they don't have any setting and the global theme is used for them.

But could a sub grid stack get the theme data from its parent?

I can certainly live with the state I have it now. Albeit I would like to get rid of the grids on the sub stacks.

I thought the new users that install nexus and make grid stacks will not find cool that sub grid stacks aren't themed as the parents after fiddling with the themes.

Just my thoughts, maybe for the future.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:45 am 
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sacco_belmonte wrote:
Just my thoughts, maybe for the future.


The future is NOW, lol. We are still in beta, so plenty of time for changes.

sacco_belmonte wrote:
But could a sub grid stack get the theme data from its parent?


They certainly could - and indeed should - and I did mention this before.

HOWEVER, this sub Grid Stacks as you call them (I would call them *temp* Grid Stacks) can also be invoked from a *Shelf* tab set to display folders as Grid Stacks.

When that happens, there is no parent Grid Stack theme to use because you are NOT invoking the temp Grid Stack from another Grid Stack, but from a Shelf - although in that case I could use the same theme as the parent Shelf. That should work too.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:14 am 
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winstep wrote:
sacco_belmonte wrote:
Just my thoughts, maybe for the future.

The future is NOW, lol. We are still in beta, so plenty of time for changes.

Noooooooo! No more changes - it's just fine as it is now. (Just to add the detachability, but I think that's already done?) No, really, it's fine! ;)
winstep wrote:
sacco_belmonte wrote:
But could a sub grid stack get the theme data from its parent?

They certainly could - and indeed should - and I did mention this before.

HOWEVER, this sub Grid Stacks as you call them (I would call them *temp* Grid Stacks) can also be invoked from a *Shelf* tab set to display folders as Grid Stacks.

When that happens, there is no parent Grid Stack theme to use because you are NOT invoking the temp Grid Stack from another Grid Stack, but from a Shelf - although in that case I could use the same theme as the parent Shelf. That should work too.

Isn't that the default behaviour - GridStacks take their theme from the current Workshelf theme? Certainly ought to be. And really ought to be set in stone - i.e., no changing GS to a different theme. Sub-GS or not.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:58 am 
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nexter wrote:
Noooooooo! No more changes - it's just fine as it is now. (Just to add the detachability, but I think that's already done?) No, really, it's fine! ;)


What?! It's a 5 minute change! Sigh.

And yes, detachability is already done.

nexter wrote:
Isn't that the default behaviour - GridStacks take their theme from the current Workshelf theme? Certainly ought to be. And really ought to be set in stone - i.e., no changing GS to a different theme. Sub-GS or not.


Why the hell not? Each dock can have it's own theme, each Shelf and Drawer the same, each desktop module too, why wouldn't Grid Stacks be the same? Makes no sense. :P

Besides, the issue is only with temporary Grid Stacks (the ones you get by right clicking a folder and selecting 'Open as GridStack') - you can already configure different themes for non-temporary Grid Stacks.

Ric, just because YOU don't think something is useful that doesn't mean others feel the same. :wink: Case in point, sacco_belmonte - and I happen to agree with him in this point too.

Anyway, in other news Quick Search has just been fully implemented and works with Regular tab types too.

I'm actually quite pleased with how it works now, and a lot of thought was put into it: the existence of a Search Bar above a Shelf, Drawer or Grid Stack (just going to reference Shelves from now on to save typing), as well as the glowing, makes it unequivocally clear that a search filter is currently applied to it.

On the other hand, the Search Bar doesn't get in the way because it automatically fades out once you click somewhere else, and stays hidden until you come back to that Shelf.

Move the Shelf and the Search Bar will move right along with it to the same relative position, but it will only do so when you release the mouse button - and does so in a very gracious and organic movement (it accelerates and then decelerates).

Furthermore, you can have more than one Shelf with active filters/search bars. But because there is only one search bar (and it only appears above the Shelf that currently has the focus) when you click on another Shelf that also has an active filter, the search bar again makes that really nice smooth movement transition from the previous Shelf to the Shelf you just clicked on.

When a Shelf with an active filter collapses, the search bar automatically fades out. When you expand the same Shelf, the search bar fades back in again.

Switch to a different tab in the Shelf and the search bar disappears/fades out (i.e.; a filter is only active for the current tab).

To invoke the filter/search bar all you need to do is start typing. The Shelf immediately starts filtering and the search bar pops up above it, to let you both know that a filter is currently active and also what you have typed so far.

You can cancel/dismiss a search bar by pressing ESC and you can delete characters in the filter by pressing backspace.

As the filter is applied to the contents of that tab, the first icon in the filtered list is always selected. This way you can quickly select and launch items with nothing but the keyboard (pressing ENTER on a Shelf launches the currently selected item, so you can type the first few letters of an item in the Shelf to select it, then press ENTER to launch it).

It's a great time saver - and thus a productivity enhancer - if you are a heavy keyboard user.

You can also disable the Search Bar (so typing does nothing like before) and even customize its color (global settings in Shelf Properties -> Behavior tab -> More Options dialog).

If the Search Bar becomes popular I can even add options to customize the color automatically (for instance, based on the current Windows 10 accent color, or on the dominant color of the owner Shelf).

Things I am not sure about yet:

1. Currently I am automatically turning off the filter as soon as you drop an item into the Shelf, but I have a feeling the filter should also be turned off after other specific actions, just not sure which ones, e.g.; I don't think the filter should be turned off after launching/renaming an item? Or should it?

2. Do you guys think the search bar (as depicted in the screenshot on the previous page) is too big? It would take me 30 seconds to make it smaller in the code if so.

Image

EDIT: For instance, smaller like this:
Attachment:
SearchFilter2.jpg
SearchFilter2.jpg [ 86.95 KiB | Viewed 858 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:06 am 
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i think smaler exxample is better


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:11 am 
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seeker wrote:
i think smaler exxample is better

Sure is. in this day age of screen real-estate the big one would just take up to much room. The I's have it(so far) Jorge the smaller one plz.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:56 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Noooooooo! No more changes - it's just fine as it is now. (Just to add the detachability, but I think that's already done?) No, really, it's fine! ;)

What?! It's a 5 minute change! Sigh.

LOL! So? The point I was making was that it was perfect as is, there's always a point where it's best to leave things as they are rather than trying to 'improve' the living daylights out of things. ;)
winstep wrote:
And yes, detachability is already done.

Great!
winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Isn't that the default behaviour - GridStacks take their theme from the current Workshelf theme? Certainly ought to be. And really ought to be set in stone - i.e., no changing GS to a different theme. Sub-GS or not.

Why the hell not? Each dock can have it's own theme, each Shelf and Drawer the same, each desktop module too, why wouldn't Grid Stacks be the same? Makes no sense. :P

Besides, the issue is only with temporary Grid Stacks (the ones you get by right clicking a folder and selecting 'Open as GridStack') - you can already configure different themes for non-temporary Grid Stacks.

Here's why the hell not. ;) Docks, shelves and drawers are permanent objects with their own 'Appearance' tab in their Properties applet. Grid Stacks OTOH are non-permanent objects that don't have their own Properties applet and don't appear in the main tab of Prefs. At least, that's how I understood it to have been intended at the outset. :)
winstep wrote:
Ric, just because YOU don't think something is useful that doesn't mean others feel the same. :wink: Case in point, sacco_belmonte - and I happen to agree with him in this point too.

Of course it doesn't Jorge. But that doesn't - or at any rate shouldn't - mean that I'm not as entitled as anybody else to express my opinion, however dissident it might be. Or does the apparent 'social media', general media, student bodies, feminist groups etc. rule apply here, too, that dissident opinion must not be tolerated? (Stalin's won there, the dirty rat. :P )
winstep wrote:
Anyway, in other news Quick Search has just been fully implemented and works with Regular tab types too.

Oh good. (Even if I don't see any use for it for myself. :P )
winstep wrote:
I'm actually quite pleased with how it works now, and a lot of thought was put into it: the existence of a Search Bar above a Shelf, Drawer or Grid Stack (just going to reference Shelves from now on to save typing), as well as the glowing, makes it unequivocally clear that a search filter is currently applied to it.

....Things I am not sure about yet:

2. Do you guys think the search bar (as depicted in the screenshot on the previous page) is too big? It would take me 30 seconds to make it smaller in the code if so.

The smaller definitely looks better, but OTOH the font appears very small to me. The screen estate used here seems irrelevant as it's not on screen permanently.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:01 pm 
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nexter wrote:
The smaller definitely looks better, but OTOH the font appears very small to me. The screen estate used here seems irrelevant as it's not on screen permanently.

Hmm you could not just agree you have to play devils advocate.

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