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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:48 pm 
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winstep wrote:
Windy wrote:
Jorge, what exactly am I looking at? That doesn't look like something that is part of the Shelf, dock or Drawer.

See that box icon with the Winstep logo on the dock? You click that icon and THAT pops out from it. :)

And it looks exactly like what it really is - a single tabbed shelf, fully open with all icons showing. I thinks that's what Windy was really doubting there. :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:58 pm 
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nexter wrote:
And it looks exactly like what it really is - a single tabbed shelf, fully open with all icons showing. I thinks that's what Windy was really doubting there. :)


What was exactly is a Grid Stack?

Exactly the same thing this is: a rectangular window with a grid of icons and text under those icons.

The MAJOR differences (and advantages!) here is that the Winstep Grid Stack is skinnable (using *already existing* themes), it can display anything a Shelf does and not just the contents of a folder, supports full drag & drop, and it supports off the bat all the different mouseover, etc, effects, settings and capabilities a normal Shelf does.

If you really want to make it look more like the original Stacks, simply make a dark semi-transparent Shelf theme for it with invisible tab backgrounds, apply the theme to this Grid Stack and then LOCK THE THEME. The ONLY difference then is that you won't have a small 'arrow' at the bottom pointing to the parent icon.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:16 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
And it looks exactly like what it really is - a single tabbed shelf, fully open with all icons showing. I thinks that's what Windy was really doubting there. :)


What was exactly is a Grid Stack?

Exactly the same thing this is: a rectangular window with a grid of icons and text under those icons.

The MAJOR differences (and advantages!) here is that the Winstep Grid Stack is skinnable (using *already existing* themes), it can display anything a Shelf does and not just the contents of a folder, supports full drag & drop, and it supports off the bat all the different mouseover, etc, effects, settings and capabilities a normal Shelf does.

If you really want to make it look more like the original Stacks, simply make a dark semi-transparent Shelf theme for it with invisible tab backgrounds, apply the theme to this Grid Stack and then LOCK THE THEME. The ONLY difference then is that you won't have a small 'arrow' at the bottom pointing to the parent icon.


So I wonder how long we wait now to test it out, I know you said in another thread ‘cool jets’ but that looks ready to fly now, licks lips. Some off your best work Jorge.

You say skinable now is that an independent skin like a module or ....
The screen grab I guess would look dark but its not the same theme as the Shelf/Dock/Drawer that’s launching it.

Now that’s worth some smakaroonies Jorge.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:34 pm 
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oOSGearOo wrote:
winstep wrote:
....The MAJOR differences (and advantages!) here is that the Winstep Grid Stack is skinnable (using *already existing* themes), it can display anything a Shelf does and not just the contents of a folder, supports full drag & drop, and it supports off the bat all the different mouseover, etc, effects, settings and capabilities a normal Shelf does.

If you really want to make it look more like the original Stacks, simply make a dark semi-transparent Shelf theme for it with invisible tab backgrounds, apply the theme to this Grid Stack and then LOCK THE THEME. The ONLY difference then is that you won't have a small 'arrow' at the bottom pointing to the parent icon.

So I wonder how long we wait now to test it out, I know you said in another thread ‘cool jets’ but that looks ready to fly now, licks lips. Some off your best work Jorge.

You say skinable now is that an independent skin like a module or ....
The screen grab I guess would look dark but its not the same theme as the Shelf/Dock/Drawer that’s launching it.

Now that’s worth some smakaroonies Jorge.

It is exactly the same skin as the dock from which it was launched. Office, unless I'm very much mistaken. And by being able to be skinnable Jorge meant, it basically uses the same theme as the shelf, but you can select another theme specifically for the 'stack' or even create a special sub-theme for it. I think. :)

As for a beta - patience friend, it may look perfect but as Jorge said elsewhere, there are loose ends to be tied up, possible bugs may yet come to light, etc., and Jorge never lets betas loose unless he's reasonably sure nothing too serious can go wrong.

But then, it depends on your definition of 'nothing too serious'. I'd consider a system crash only a relatively minor irritation, even if it caused having to do a full restore from backup. And AFAIC, your computer can only blow up/melt down once, so what the heck? :P

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:55 pm 
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nexter wrote:
And by being able to be skinnable Jorge meant, it basically uses the same theme as the shelf, but you can select another theme specifically for the 'stack' or even create a special sub-theme for it. I think. :)


You think well.

nexter wrote:
But then, it depends on your definition of 'nothing too serious'. I'd consider a system crash only a relatively minor irritation


LOL

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:17 pm 
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Jorge, is the Grid Stack screenshot how you're going to do multiple rows?

Or is that another feature besides you adding a few more features (which I would think should be fairly easy since most of the Shelf features are already there) to make an expandable drag and drop fullscreen multiple row single-tabbed Shelf?

Of course, I prefer the latter with the option to scroll seamlessly through the rows in large or small increments.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Windy wrote:
Jorge, is the Grid Stack screenshot how you're going to do multiple rows?

Windy... sigh. :shock:

You've never seen Stacks in the Apple MacOSX dock?

What below from minute 1:20



Difference is, a Stack in MacOSX can only display the contents of a folder, under Winstep the new Grid Stack can display everything the Shelf does.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:10 pm 
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Ok, hope nobody is using different Shelf transparency levels for open and collapsed.

Given how you can control the various elements separately (Shelf body, icons, icon labels, tab labels) there is no way I can support properly different transparency levels for when the Shelf is open and when it is collapsed. I am therefore going to remove the 'How transparent do you want the shelf to be when collapsed' setting.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:50 pm 
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winstep wrote:
Difference is, a Stack in MacOSX can only display the contents of a folder, under Winstep the new Grid Stack can display everything the Shelf does.


And given this, one question to you guys:

As you know, each tab in the Shelf can be one of many different types: Regular, Folder, Desktop, Apps, etc... Likewise, a Grid Stack can also be one of those many different types.

To add a Grid Stack to a dock, you right click on the dock, select 'Insert New Item' from the context menu that pops up and then 'Grid Stack' from the sub-menu.

Now, I'm not sure what is best/more convenient: create a 'Regular type' Grid Stack by default (and the user can afterwards change it's type by opening the Grid Stack's Properties dialog) OR when you click on 'Grid Stack' in the sub-menu above it opens another sub-menu showing the different available Grid Stack types and you select the type you want right there and then.

Of course, in the latter case if the user selects 'Folder' type, he must then be prompted to select a folder to display, which, in my opinion, is not exactly optimal.

Another idea which would make adding folder Grid Stacks a lot easier: in the Item Properties dialog of a folder shortcut in the dock you can already select if the folder should be shown in an Explorer window or as a menu when you click on it. Likewise, I could add one more option: 'Show in a Grid Stack', and even add those options to the right click menu of a folder shortcut.

This would make it simpler (and also more MacOSX like) to show the contents of folders in a Grid Stack (just drag & drop a folder to the dock, right click on it and select how it should be shown: Explorer, menu, or Grid Stack).

The only drawback is that then I must be able to convert folder shortcuts to folder Grid Stacks and vice-versa as required.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:57 pm 
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winstep wrote:
Ok, hope nobody is using different Shelf transparency levels for open and collapsed.

Given how you can control the various elements separately (Shelf body, icons, icon labels, tab labels) there is no way I can support properly different transparency levels for when the Shelf is open and when it is collapsed. I am therefore going to remove the 'How transparent do you want the shelf to be when collapsed' setting.


umm i actually do


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:01 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
And by being able to be skinnable Jorge meant, it basically uses the same theme as the shelf, but you can select another theme specifically for the 'stack' or even create a special sub-theme for it. I think. :)

You think well.

Thank you. One tries. :)
winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
But then, it depends on your definition of 'nothing too serious'. I'd consider a system crash only a relatively minor irritation

LOL

Well, even quite seriously, these things needn't be too bad with a well-backed up system. With USB 3 and an SSD system drive, it's only a matter of an hour or so to restore the complete system as well as all data, esp. if you keep most of your data on separate disks. :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:03 pm 
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seeker wrote:
umm i actually do


Too late, sorry... :cry: Hope you're not going to miss it too much.

I couldn't get the transparency levels working correctly in all the cases, and when it didn't work as intended it made a big huge mess (in practice the collapsed transparency had to be higher - i.e.; even more transparent - than the expanded transparency unless you were making the whole thing transparent, etc) - at that point it's better to remove the feature altogether.

You should know already how much I dislike deprecating features, so if I do so it's for a VERY GOOD reason...

What transparency levels were you using, by the way?

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:33 pm 
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winstep wrote:
winstep wrote:
This would make it simpler (and also more MacOSX like) to show the contents of folders in a Grid Stack (just drag & drop a folder to the dock, right click on it and select how it should be shown: Explorer, menu, or Grid Stack).

The only drawback is that then I must be able to convert folder shortcuts to folder Grid Stacks and vice-versa as required.

With your 'menu' option for the Dock/shelf I have already started creating my folders, full off shortcuts which I would like to add as a gridstack/Showfolder/menu. For example I have Adobe apps installed, I have made a shortcut to each in a folder and would expect a gridstack from that. This would be no problem to you and is one off your options above. This is how I would use your grid-stack.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:44 pm 
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I agree implementing conversion to be able to go back and forth then is the best solution.

Seems like is more work (I don't know how much)

EDIT: Err...don't know...once you know the type of folder you want by trial and error, once you settle on one mode you most likely stay there.

The default should be the best solution for general icons (whichever you guys find the best as I'm new to the party). Then you could change it to something else if you need to.

In my case I have everything in folders already. Maybe I will not need them after importing to Nexus but I have zero problems by placing my icons there. In fact I feel my icons are not gonna go anywhere or get lost (aka, dock app not able to load settings)

Maybe this is all paranoia as ObjectDock and RocketDock had similar problems.

My dock elements are mostly shortcuts, only two of them are general items such as documents, videos, websites, audio and subfolders with more stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:26 pm 
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As we're firmly back in shelf territory, here's something that's been bugging me for years, and now with having been working on various new and re-styled animated recyclers it's bugging me more than ever.

It's this. The animation (both for desktop as well as in-shelf/-dock, obviously) has a major fault. While it loops just fine, as soon as you release the mouse button, regardless of where the animation is at that moment, the 'WsTrashES.*' icon appears briefly before the 'WsTrashFS.*' icon is displayed. This is all wrong and makes for a jerky anim and in fact makes the anim pointless, strictly speaking. What should happen is this. The anim should run through to the 'WsTrashD.*' icon and then transition immediately to the 'WsTrashFS.*' icon. That is precisely how it ran under NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP, btw. Going from the 'delete' icon back to the 'empty' one before showing the 'full' icon is nonsensical and doesn't work.

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