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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:17 pm 
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exxos wrote:
Though even when I get it looking like this after restoring the backup, the menus are messed up as shown before, and even the start button changes to "START" not the globe.. A lot of the fonts and sizes also get messed up.


Thanks for the screenshots, but you got me all confused now. In the screenshot above at this point the sub-menus seem to be looking as they should?!

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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:20 pm 
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winstep wrote:
Thanks for the screenshots, but you got me all confused now. In the screenshot above at this point the sub-menus seem to be looking as they should?!


The last screenshots were done after I restored my C: drive. So everything is back to how it was when I started this thread. The problem was the text location was not centered. So now I am back to that problem, which appeared after I updated from V12.

To which you suggested making a backup in winstep (which I did) then change the theme (which I did) then restore the backup in winstep (which I did) and it fixed the text center issue, but trashed all the fonts, menu themes etc etc

I restored my winstep folders and registry but couldn't revert back to how it was before it got trashed. So I restored my whole C: drive from a backup which is done automatically each day.

So I *had* to fix it otherwise my backup would backup a broken setup, then I be totally screwed.

But this is showing a deeper problem that the backup/restore in winstep doesn't seem to work right. I had a epic of this in V12 when I set it all up. I found it was back in 2013 when I emailed about issues. I sent 3 emails and never got a reply. I can't find the one about the backup/restore issues, I probably wrote it and didn't bother to send it.

The forum seemed dead back then. No updates for ages, lots of people were saying they wasn't going to renew the subscription as it was basically assumed winstep was abandonware. I did check back some months after that and saw a new update, which basically fixed the weather thing not working, which I got working myself anyway.. So though after such a small update it didn't seem like winstep was a active project anymore.

Fast forward until a couple weeks ago, I checked back on the off-chance, and of course huge version increase. Another thread by myself requested a "Fix" to speed up the reaction times of the task bar, which was done a few versions ago, so I thought great, I will update it. But it still takes about 2 seconds to open or close tabs, only now they fade in and a out or move about which is just annoying (so I hope that feature can be turned off somewhere ??)

Its great your still working on all this of course! Though how it is from my perspective, the backup/restore hasn't worked since V12 and still doesn't work in V18. Plus the new fancy fade & move things I am not a fan of, I open and close tabs all the time and its like I have to go chasing tabs now in the task bar as they keep moving about :roll: It kinda defeats the objective to have program to make life easier, and then have it make harder work when stuff moves about. Plus the text has lost its centered location (which you explained about earlier).

Oh and the original topic was there was some overlapping taskbar tabs which it wasn't doing before. Like when a tabs moves to the left when I close one in the task bar, it seems to move over , or under, the first tab in the task bar.. Just look at my first posted image and it has "inbox - payments" and "payments" text looks to have a "@" and some other text merged into it, so thats some new bug as it didn't do that before. So there is clearly some bug in overlapping text now.

So I actually seem worse off now than I was when I had V12 installed :(


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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:35 pm 
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is it possible there is something about your setup thats corrupting the backup/restore?
i used the feature alot myself and never had any problems


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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:40 pm 
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exxos wrote:
So I actually seem worse off now than I was when I had V12 installed :(


But it's not. You're still operating within the limits of v12.

Here's what I suggest you do: start HERE and go back Winstep Xtreme version by Winstep Xtreme version (you will need to click on 'Older News' after that first page) until you reach 'Winstep Xtreme v14.11 Released!'.

Each release announcement page highlights what is new in that version. By the time you are finished I hope you will not only realize how very wrong what you wrote above is, as you will have an idea on how far Winstep Xtreme has come since the v12 days and from all those new features which might be useful to you. :wink:

Now, please stop restoring from file backups or doing things I haven't asked you to until things are stabilized and let's tackle your issues one by one, shall we? :)

exxos wrote:
the backup/restore hasn't worked since V12 and still doesn't work in V18


Ok, let's try and understand what might be going on, because I know for a fact that backup and restore work exactly as they should.

When you applied the new theme like I asked you to and it did more than you wanted to, you restored from the Winstep backup you had previously made, right?

What application did you restore the settings for first? WorkShelf or NextSTART?

exxos wrote:
But it still takes about 2 seconds to open or close tabs, only now they fade in and a out or move about which is just annoying (so I hope that feature can be turned off somewhere ??)


Unfortunately that cannot be currently turned off, although I can certainly consider an option for that in the next release.

This said, you do realize that this actually makes things look a lot smoother and that the Windows taskbar does *exactly the same* (and those Windows taskbar animations can't be turned off either), no?

As for it taking 2 seconds for taskbar buttons to appear or close, aren't you exaggerating a little bit? The button fadeout animation only lasts 250 ms after all (1/4 of a second).

If not, any chance you could provide a video so I can experience this delay for myself?

exxos wrote:
Plus the new fancy fade & move things I am not a fan of, I open and close tabs all the time and its like I have to go chasing tabs now in the task bar as they keep moving about :roll: It kinda defeats the objective to have program to make life easier, and then have it make harder work when stuff moves about.


You seem to be implying that the taskbar buttons keep randomly switching places all the time, but that is not what is really happening, is it (and please correct me if I am wrong)? Seems to me you just don't like the animation that happens when a taskbar button in the middle of other taskbar buttons closes and the buttons to the right of it 'slide in' to take its place.

But the thing is, without the animation this would still happen, it just would not happen in a smooth way.

exxos wrote:
Plus the text has lost its centered location (which you explained about earlier).


Now you are talking about the text of the Shelf tabs. Please open WorkShelf Preferences, go to the Themes tab and click the Fonts button at the bottom left corner. Please post a screenshot of the dialog that opens up.

exxos wrote:
Oh and the original topic was there was some overlapping taskbar tabs which it wasn't doing before. Like when a tabs moves to the left when I close one in the task bar, it seems to move over , or under, the first tab in the task bar.. Just look at my first posted image and it has "inbox - payments" and "payments" text looks to have a "@" and some other text merged into it, so thats some new bug as it didn't do that before. So there is clearly some bug in overlapping text now.


Yes, I can see that in the screenshot, however that glitch does not appear in any of the other screenshots. I also tried reproducing here with the same theme you are using there for the taskbar (Windows7_Xtreme) just in case it was only visible with semi-transparent taskbar buttons and I was unable to no matter how hard I tried.

Also, it's nearly impossible to tell if that @ is something BEHIND the taskbar or if it's on the taskbar itself, since you seem to have blur (Aero Glass) turned off in Winstep Xtreme. Did you deliberately disable blur?

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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:26 am 
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winstep wrote:
Each release announcement page highlights what is new in that version. By the time you are finished I hope you will not only realize how very wrong what you wrote above is, as you will have an idea on how far Winstep Xtreme has come since the v12 days and from all those new features which might be useful to you. :wink:


http://www.winstep.net/news/November_7_ ... leased.asp

Like I said, basically the weather thing was fix, ok there are some other things, but I hardly call that a huge improvement. That's the version I am actually talking about, and why I didn't upgrade.

I know fully well the long list of changes up to V18, I wasn't talking about that, I was talking of the next version since V12, which is 14.11. So I am perfectly correct in what I stated.


winstep wrote:
Now, please stop restoring from file backups or doing things I haven't asked you to until things are stabilized and let's tackle your issues one by one, shall we? :)


Well I am sorry, but I have to use my pc and can't when the thing is trashed. As there was no other solution ( and still isn't) what exactly am I supposed to do ?



winstep wrote:
When you applied the new theme like I asked you to and it did more than you wanted to, you restored from the Winstep backup you had previously made, right?


Yes.


winstep wrote:
What application did you restore the settings for first? WorkShelf or NextSTART?


I used the one in the advanced setting in winstep.


winstep wrote:
This said, you do realize that this actually makes things look a lot smoother and that the Windows taskbar does *exactly the same* (and those Windows taskbar animations can't be turned off either), no?


No it doesn't! I don't have any animations or effects in the task bar in windows 7. When I close a tab, it vanishes, no effects, it just goes! This is exactly what it did in V12 also.


winstep wrote:
You seem to be implying that the taskbar buttons keep randomly switching places all the time, but that is not what is really happening, is it (and please correct me if I am wrong)? Seems to me you just don't like the animation that happens when a taskbar button in the middle of other taskbar buttons closes and the buttons to the right of it 'slide in' to take its place.


If you have like 20 things open and try and close several, you can't do it easily because of the "slide to left" animation. So its like I have to go "chasing" the things to close then. Its counter productive for me.


winstep wrote:
Now you are talking about the text of the Shelf tabs. Please open WorkShelf Preferences, go to the Themes tab and click the Fonts button at the bottom left corner. Please post a screenshot of the dialog that opens up.


Attachment:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG [ 77.2 KiB | Viewed 2264 times ]





winstep wrote:
Yes, I can see that in the screenshot, however that glitch does not appear in any of the other screenshots. I also tried reproducing here with the same theme you are using there for the taskbar (Windows7_Xtreme) just in case it was only visible with semi-transparent taskbar buttons and I was unable to no matter how hard I tried.


It does not do it all the time. I don't know what "triggers" it. Seems to be intermittent. I guess it happens when I have a lot of things open and close a lot, then it starts to mess up.


winstep wrote:
Also, it's nearly impossible to tell if that @ is something BEHIND the taskbar or if it's on the taskbar itself, since you seem to have blur (Aero Glass) turned off in Winstep Xtreme. Did you deliberately disable blur?


I don't know what blur your talking about. I've not changed anything for several years so I don't know what options are what anymore .

But to me, it looks like the text of 2 open programs got mashed into 1 tab in the task bar causing the overlay of text from 2 tabs into 1.


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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:19 am 
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exxos wrote:
I know fully well the long list of changes up to V18, I wasn't talking about that, I was talking of the next version since V12, which is 14.11. So I am perfectly correct in what I stated.


Eh? Ok, we are having serious miscommunication issues here lol. Aren't you running v18.12 now?

If so, weren't you implying that you were better off with v12 than v18.12? That's what I responded to. Nothing to do with v14.11, at least not on my part.

winstep wrote:
Well I am sorry, but I have to use my pc and can't when the thing is trashed. As there was no other solution ( and still isn't) what exactly am I supposed to do ?


You're supposed to be a bit more patient. If you ask about issues here but instead of waiting for my reply you start changing things on your own, by the time I reply my suggestions will no longer be valid. Right? :)

exxos wrote:
winstep wrote:
What application did you restore the settings for first? WorkShelf or NextSTART?

I used the one in the advanced setting in winstep.


Winstep? Or did you mean WorkShelf?

If the latter, did you do the same for NextSTART?

exxos wrote:
winstep wrote:
Please open WorkShelf Preferences, go to the Themes tab and click the Fonts button at the bottom left corner. Please post a screenshot of the dialog that opens up.


Attachment:
Capture.JPG


Ok, see, this is another potential cause for confusion. I asked you to open WorkShelf Preferences and you've opened NextSTART Preferences.

Now I am not even sure if you realize that WorkShelf and NextSTART are independent applications with *separate* settings. This is why I told you initially that you need to backup *both* NextSTART *and* WorkShelf settings, i.e.; you need to do this *for each* of the two applications.

When you are backing up WorkShelf settings you are NOT also backing up NextSTART settings. You need to go to NextSTART for that.

Apologies if it appears like I am stating the obvious to you at this point, but now I am not so sure if it actually is that obvious. It's a common source of confusion, after all. :)

exxos wrote:
If you have like 20 things open and try and close several, you can't do it easily because of the "slide to left" animation. So its like I have to go "chasing" the things to close then. Its counter productive for me.


Ok, now that you explained it, I understand your motivation on this. Thanks. :)

exxos wrote:
It does not do it all the time. I don't know what "triggers" it. Seems to be intermittent. I guess it happens when I have a lot of things open and close a lot, then it starts to mess up.


Ok, that kind of helps, although intermittent bugs are very hard to diagnose. I have never seen that happen here, for instance. Nobody else ever complained either.

exxos wrote:
But to me, it looks like the text of 2 open programs got mashed into 1 tab in the task bar causing the overlay of text from 2 tabs into 1.


Yes, could be something like that, i.e.; 'leftovers' from a previous taskbar button.

Since I can't reproduce it here, can you please be on the lookout for when it happens again, to see if you can find a 'pattern', something that triggers it (e.g.; it only happens when the taskbar is completely filled with buttons)?

Also, can't tell from your screenshots, but do you have your taskbar buttons grouped (i.e.; if you open two instances of the Windows Calculator, do they appear in a single taskbar button or in two separate buttons) ?

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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:38 pm 
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I don't have grouping turned on no.

I was running V12 since about 2012 ( I mention V14 as that was the last time I saw a update, which I didn't do) Anyway, about 2 weeks ago I installed the latest version 18.. Which I am still using.

So I see some confusion now about backups, I had totally forgotten there was 2 backup options.. I haven't done anything since 2013 with it.. it looks like the last backup I made was in 2014.

Though granted the dock wasn't backed up and restored, I still don't get why things like the start menus still did not get restored ?

I haven't seen that overlap text issue in the task bar again yet.. So will keep a eye out for that.

I have noticed some other odd thing that the apps appear in the task bar now..

Attachment:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG [ 21.33 KiB | Viewed 2240 times ]


I closed Wsclock but it stayed in the task bar. About 30 seconds later all 3 vanished. so not sure whats going on there either. It seems intermittent, I'm sure they don't appear when I first turn on my PC, but seem to appear a few hours later.. So will keep a closer eye on that as well.

If there anyway I can just export the whole thing so you can install it your end ? At least if you can replicate it then yourself, you can fix it 100x quicker than going back and forth for days on here.


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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:21 pm 
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exxos wrote:
Though granted the dock wasn't backed up and restored, I still don't get why things like the start menus still did not get restored ?


Because Winstep Xtreme is a suite of separate applications, with NextSTART and WorkShelf being components of that same suite. Much like Word and Excel are also individual applications part of the same Office suite.

As such, their settings are separate.

exxos wrote:
I closed Wsclock but it stayed in the task bar. About 30 seconds later all 3 vanished. so not sure whats going on there either. It seems intermittent, I'm sure they don't appear when I first turn on my PC, but seem to appear a few hours later.. So will keep a closer eye on that as well.


See, that again is definitely not normal behavior either. It's like something in your system (a 3rd party application) is changing the 'windows attributes' of the desktop modules in such a way that they now qualify as windows that should appear on the taskbar. But it's not the Winstep application itself doing this.

exxos wrote:
If there anyway I can just export the whole thing so you can install it your end ? At least if you can replicate it then yourself, you can fix it 100x quicker than going back and forth for days on here.


Well, you can open WorkShelf Preferences, go to the Advanced tab and create a backup. Then you can open NextSTART Preferences, go to the Advanced tab and create a backup for NextSTART settings. Then you can send both files to the Winstep support address and I can try having a look at them to see if I notice anything odd.

If you are using the Email Checker module though, I advise you to disable it there before you make the WorkShelf backup, as otherwise it will try to check your email accounts as soon as I install your settings here.

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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:17 am 
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exxos wrote:
If you have like 20 things open and try and close several, you can't do it easily because of the "slide to left" animation. So its like I have to go "chasing" the things to close then. Its counter productive for me.


I already changed the code so that in the next release if the 'Disable all animations' option is set on the Sounds & Animations tab of NextSTART Preferences then the taskbar buttons stop animating. This setting will also disable any menu opening animations, but given what you said here so far regarding preferring 'quickness' over 'smoothness', that should be ok with you. :)

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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:40 pm 
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Fantastic thank-you!

I will email you the backup files shortly.

Sorry for the slow replies, I am not at home much currently.

Since last mentioning the Wsclock appearing in the task bar.. it didn't do that again until today.. I didn't notice at what point they appeared though. There were there for a couple hours and I just closed them to get rid of them (also closed the apps of course).. It might be relating to how many things are open in the task bar at any one time, mine tends to get rather full.


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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:49 pm 
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exxos wrote:
It might be relating to how many things are open in the task bar at any one time, mine tends to get rather full.


No. There is a 'filter' to decide which windows appear in the taskbar and which do not.

Part of that filter is a specific window attribute which the desktop module windows DO NOT HAVE set. So, something in your system seems to be altering the attributes of windows that don't belong to them.

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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:27 pm 
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Hi Winstep,

Do you received my mp?


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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:46 pm 
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Yes, but when I replied to let you know, the email bounced back with 'user unknown'. Check your reply-to email address.

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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:48 pm 
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winstep wrote:
Yes, but when I replied to let you know, the email bounced back with 'user unknown'. Check your reply-to email address.


Ah, its valid, you hit my spam filter, I need to know the error code EHxxx or EBxxx

WSClock, CPU, METAR appeared in my task bar. What I did was boot my PC, loaded a couple apps.. was fine, then I launched a app from the dock and then WSClock etc appeared in the task bar. Will try and replicate it tomorrow as well.


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 Post subject: Re: 18.12 task bar overlap bug ?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:50 pm 
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EH282

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