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 Post subject: Re: Coming from Objectdock, pain points
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:39 am 
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Not sure yet if the second disappearance is related to this same bug or not. How did you rename the tab created from the C:\ drive folder? Again through the Tab Properties dialog, no? If so, it's the same bug.


Confirming, yes, this is how I edited it using the properties dialog.


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 Post subject: Re: Coming from Objectdock, pain points
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:14 am 
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I'm very relieved you had a backup, or you probably would have scrapped the application by now.


Yes I would have been gone.

Again, it takes years of experience to know how important this is. Most people have no idea how important this is but Objectdock and many other apps have done this to me too many times.

I will point out that having to use the Nexus GUI to do this comes up short for me also.

I love that I can do it from the GUI but after this defect I'm going to want to do this every time I add anything or at least a couple times day. I would like to be able to just point to the data folder or DB or however you are storing these with my backup software or a cron job so I don't lose data.

With object dock, I back up my folder holding definitions for tabs/docks/shelves close to hourly and keep a running set of about 2 weeks of them. I use a similar plan for other important apps. I see Nexus as my replacement for Objectdock which I have used for a looooooonnng time. I hope to get to know this piece of software very well.

For now, I'm leaning towards all my tabs being folder tabs that way I can just make sure to backup these folders. I count 16 tabs in front of me on my home desktop machine and rebuilding something like this can be next to impossible.

I also already want to quickly import and export tabs or docks with Nexus, I don't think I've seen this functionality here. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Coming from Objectdock, pain points
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:23 am 
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kevinma wrote:
I also know this opens a clear path for every Objectdock user on the planet to convert all their tabbed docks to tabbed shelves easily. Lord knows there are ton of unhappy stuck Objectdock users.


Ok, note, however, that I said skins, not *content*. :)

kevinma wrote:
One more thought, in my earlier post I should have chosen a different word than bizarre. In hindsight it was a tad inflammatory and I apologize for not realizing it at the time.


Thanks, understood. :)

I looked at it as the equivalent of 'jumping the gun' or 'judging a book by its cover' eheh. This because I am fully confident that, in time and as you get used to it, you will realize how there really is no comparison in terms of sheer functionality.

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 Post subject: Re: Coming from Objectdock, pain points
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:32 am 
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kevinma wrote:
For now, I'm leaning towards all my tabs being folder tabs that way I can just make sure to backup these folders. I count 16 tabs in front of me on my home desktop machine and rebuilding something like this can be next to impossible.


No need for that. To start with, this bug was a one off thing and you already know why. But I understand you lost confidence. :)

You can use the built-in Alarm Manager together with the Auto Backup Settings internal command to schedule automatic backups of your settings. Just add an alarm, select a schedule, then set the alarm to run the Auto Backup Settings internal command.

(I think this is the point that you will begin to realize how powerful Winstep Xtreme really is, lol)

Just don't go overboard with the schedule as the internal command does NOT automatically delete old backups.

kevinma wrote:
I also already want to quickly import and export tabs or docks with Nexus, I don't think I've seen this functionality here. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Unless you meant backups, you can use right click menu functions to duplicate/clone Docks, Shelves and Drawers, and you can even use simple drag & drop to clone whole sub-docks and Grid Stacks (just press CTRL while dragging the parent icon).

Be VERY CAREFUL when dealing with the contents of folder-type Shelf tabs, Grid Stacks and Drawers. As you probably realized by now, you will be dealing with the REAL files and folders in them, NOT shortcuts to those files and folders.

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 Post subject: Re: Coming from Objectdock, pain points
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:36 pm 
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Quote:
You can use the built-in Alarm Manager together with the Auto Backup Settings internal command to schedule automatic backups of your settings. Just add an alarm, select a schedule, then set the alarm to run the Auto Backup Settings internal command.

(I think this is the point that you will begin to realize how powerful Winstep Xtreme really is, lol)

Just don't go overboard with the schedule as the internal command does NOT automatically delete old backups.


This will work great. I already have code to manage and tend to cleaning up the backup folders.

I tinkered with the alarm a little but haven't been back there.

At work machine now testing your fix.

Funny story ? My main PC, a mac, a linux box and my echo spot are all mixed together for sound here at my desk. Recently, I started getting the time announced every hour on the hour. The echo spot displays a calendar whenever it is idle and I went searching for a setting to turn it off. Couldn't find. Googling led to everyone wanting this feature on their echos but not having it. I got Amazon support involved. They and I were dumbfounded as to why out of the blue without an Echo update this started happening. After 2 days back and forth none of us could figure out what was going on.

I'll give you one guess what the problem was ?


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 Post subject: Re: Coming from Objectdock, pain points
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:48 pm 
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Fix confirmed. I added a folder based tab with no damage to the existing tabs :-)

I just now noticed I can both add and insert . Yesterday, I just chose the first one in the menu which was insert. I'll add more and try some renaming but fix looks good on this end.

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Coming from Objectdock, pain points
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:22 pm 
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winstep wrote:
DesertDwarf wrote:
Except, I know that my last sentence is untrue because he does have such a conception.

Yep, but sometimes he just goes off. This said, don't know if you still remember it, but he's much mellower now than he was years ago in the mailing lists lol

LOL! Well, first, thanks for that nice 'defense' Jorge. :) Second, yeah, it's true I have slightly mellowed over the years, but I still don't suffer fools, gladly or otherwise, and even that apart I admittedly tend not to take any prisoners. ;) The thing is, I always tend to assume that people should be a lot more intelligent than they often are and that they should also be able to take things on the chin without taking things personally. So I often get somewhat irate when people don't understand basic things and mis-describe things and that sort of thing, and yes, of course I do have strongly held opinions, too. In the kind of circles that I socialise in people are used to arguing like a bunch of mad bulls and we all take things on the chin as it were, but we never loose respect or affection. If an opinion's worth having at all it should always be a strongly-held one. And nobody ever falls out over it. Offense certainly is never ever intended.
winstep wrote:
Being THAT opinionated would sometimes result in VERY lively debates (i.e. 'battles') with people who stood their ground, which luckily normally ended up in a virtual round of beer being distributed all around and everyone remaining friends. :)

Ric has been a Winstep user since 1999, the very beginning - IIRC, he was a friend of John T.Folden when me and John decided to create Winstep, and his contributions to emulate NeXT's look & feel on Windows (the very reason NextSTART was born) were invaluable.

Yes, I met John first and then he introduced us Jorge, and that was still in 1998. (ISTR that you'd just come back from a job in Sevilla? Or was that afterwards?) Heady days those were! :) Fun, with all the ups and downs of getting NextSTART to work and look the way we all wanted. (For nostalgia's sake, I've actually been updating some of my very old NeXT themes btw.)

And there's another point also - precisely because of my having been a kind of 'midwife' to your, Jorge, and John's 'mother' and 'father' of Winstep, I feel very deeply and strongly about the app and when, as indeed we sometimes see here, people come in and 'dis' the app or a part of it or make silly comparisons etc., I can sometimes react quite strongly.

And as for that sort of thing generally, you want to have a look at e.g. some of the many Linux-related forums - compared to some of the stuff there, I'm almost a pussycat! LOL!

winstep wrote:
DesertDwarf wrote:
Regardless, I suspect kevinma is gone and that's a sad thing.

Yes it is. That being the case, hope he changes his mind though, if not for Ric's semi-apology, at least for the rest of us. :)

It would be a sad thing indeed, I concur. Luckily for all of us he has indeed changed his mind, and he still seems to confuse Workshelf and NeXus. But I'm sure you'll sort him out in the end with your almost infinite patience. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Coming from Objectdock, pain points
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:03 am 
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nexter wrote:
In the kind of circles that I socialise in people are used to arguing like a bunch of mad bulls and we all take things on the chin as it were, but we never loose respect or affection. If an opinion's worth having at all it should always be a strongly-held one. And nobody ever falls out over it. Offense certainly is never ever intended.


arguments between friends is not the same thing as with strangers nexter, and not everyone is used to be hit on the chin by complete stranger, or willing to go along with it


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 Post subject: Re: Coming from Objectdock, pain points
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:33 am 
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seeker wrote:
arguments between friends is not the same thing as with strangers nexter, and not everyone is used to be hit on the chin by complete stranger, or willing to go along with it


Seeker is right, Ric. Sometimes I even get stung simply because of my tongue-in-cheek and extremely direct style of communication, as most are not expecting an informal tone and some react badly to it. I'm quick to apologize if that is warranted, but I will also stand my ground if needed.

So, try to have balance in everything, my friend. :)

nexter wrote:
And as for that sort of thing generally, you want to have a look at e.g. some of the many Linux-related forums - compared to some of the stuff there, I'm almost a pussycat! LOL!


I won't argue about that. For some reason I have read several times that the Linux community is very hostile to newbies (but isn't that shooting themselves in the foot as well since that is what Linux desperately needs, new users?).

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 Post subject: Re: Coming from Objectdock, pain points
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:45 am 
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kevinma wrote:
Funny story ? My main PC, a mac, a linux box and my echo spot are all mixed together for sound here at my desk. Recently, I started getting the time announced every hour on the hour. The echo spot displays a calendar whenever it is idle and I went searching for a setting to turn it off. Couldn't find. Googling led to everyone wanting this feature on their echos but not having it. I got Amazon support involved. They and I were dumbfounded as to why out of the blue without an Echo update this started happening. After 2 days back and forth none of us could figure out what was going on.

I'll give you one guess what the problem was ?


AHAHAHA! I don't know, some lady with a sexy voice you've got trapped in your PC?! ;)

Hey, at least now I know it's a feature everyone wants for their Echoes. Just tell them to get a Winstep application instead. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Coming from Objectdock, pain points
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:22 am 
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Hey, at least now I know it's a feature everyone wants for their Echoes. Just tell them to get a Winstep application instead.


Exactly, Winstep Nexus (which I believe is the correct name, please check for me nexter, I struggle to keep up with you) by default the clock was burping out the time on the hour and it was mixed in with all 3 other devices so everyone assumed it was the Echo clock which is displayed in front of us but alas it was Nexus clock which is hidden away quiet except on the hour.

Amazon never even asked how I fixed it. They were just thrilled cause they could not figure out how their device was doing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Coming from Objectdock, pain points
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:59 pm 
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winstep wrote:
seeker wrote:
arguments between friends is not the same thing as with strangers nexter, and not everyone is used to be hit on the chin by complete stranger, or willing to go along with it

Seeker is right, Ric. Sometimes I even get stung simply because of my tongue-in-cheek and extremely direct style of communication, as most are not expecting an informal tone and some react badly to it. I'm quick to apologize if that is warranted, but I will also stand my ground if needed.

So, try to have balance in everything, my friend. :)

Agreed, bit more balance wouldn't hurt. :) Forums etc. sure used to be much more friendly places - no, much more 'open' places, the odd flame war thrown in and all! ;) But its social media that have put an end to free and open expression (as much as all the 'politically correct' etc. crap). Dissent from the 'norm' will not be tolerated..

As for Linux community, on the whole actually very friendly towards and supportive of newbies, but there are of course the odd few hot-heads here and there. And ofd course debates sometimes tend to get quite heated. :) Regarding Linux needing new users, it seems to be getting a fairly steady stream of them. Of course, as has always happened, some distros do better than others, some may eventually vanish, but new ones still keep popping up, especially commercial/semi-commercial (consumer as well as pro) distros. Funny thing seems to be that the idea of paying for software is getting ever more accepted in the Linux community at large, while in the world of Windows people seem less and less inclined to part with money. This is not helped when you can pick up downloadable licenses for Windows itself (inc. Enterprise edn.) for less than the price of even a cheap little utility program - the home edition seems to go for as little as the price of a coffee and a couple of biscuits!

A 'Linstep' distro version could possibly provide a viable revenue stream a bit down the road Jorge, and shouldn't be all that difficult to convert Winstep into a complete Desktop Environment in conjunction with a suitable and suitably slightly modified window manager. Dev tools cost nothing, parts that could remain open source (base OS etc., package handling, etc.) could be left to the community - you might even be able to attract financing through sponsorship to pay other developers, etc. As you know yourself my friend, we still have people coming in here from time to time saying they wish there were 'a Linux version' of Xtreme. :)

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