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Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903
http://forums.winstep.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11093
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Author:  rdnckreaper [ Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

I recently updated to Windows 10 1903 and it fixed an issue I was having with Winstep where it was preventing Windows from restarting or shutting down.
Now I have the issue where my WorkShelf dock shows up only on boot and then I have no access to it. I cannot access the Preference via the taskbar option either.
I have used task manager to End Task for Workshelf and then restart it and it will show up but it is unusable and when it hides it will not come back.

Author:  winstep [ Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

rdnckreaper wrote:
I cannot access the Preference via the taskbar option either.


Why? What happens when you try?

Also, what happens if you press CTRL+F11?

Author:  Windy [ Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

Sometimes for some unknown reason, the startup option gets unchecked/unticked. It usually happens when there is an update of some kind, or Windows Explorer crashes.

Try this. Right-lick on the NeXus control icon (the diamond shaped icon on the dock) point the cursor on Exit and click to exit which ever product you're using.

When you do that, are all of the boxes ticked to run the programs at startup?

Author:  rdnckreaper [ Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

winstep wrote:

Why? What happens when you try?

Also, what happens if you press CTRL+F11?


Nothing happens that is the catch. I tried the CTRL F11 but that didn't do anything. My taskbar and task manager say that workshelf if running. It is Enabled in my startup and shows when Windows is loading but I can never get it to pop up out of auto hide.

Author:  rdnckreaper [ Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

Windy wrote:
Sometimes for some unknown reason, the startup option gets unchecked/unticked. It usually happens when there is an update of some kind, or Windows Explorer crashes.

Try this. Right-lick on the NeXus control icon (the diamond shaped icon on the dock) point the cursor on Exit and click to exit which ever product you're using.

When you do that, are all of the boxes ticked to run the programs at startup?


That is the catch...i cannot access the dock. The dock only shows when Windows is loading and I can never get it back. I manually shut down the application from the task manager and then reload it. The dock will pop up, then hide, then never activate again.

Author:  winstep [ Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

rdnckreaper wrote:
Nothing happens that is the catch. I tried the CTRL F11 but that didn't do anything.


But CTRL F11 works otherwise, right?

What you are describing sounds like a freeze. Since the application isn't crashing per se, there is no error message. Trial and error is required to figure out what might be triggering the freeze on your system and what exactly is freezing within the application.

For instance, try running for a while with the dock visible at all times, showing a CPU meter module in it. When the application stops responding, see if the activity in the CPU meter module is also frozen. Running with the dock always visible and using the CPU meter module as a 'heart rate monitor' for the Winstep application might also help figure out what triggers the freeze.

This is not a Windows 10 build 1903 issue either, that is what I run here too and I haven't experienced any freezes in Winstep Xtreme. No other user reports either.

My immediate suspect would be 3rd party interference from AV/Security software, as that type of applications LOVE to hook into other people's processes. In reality, could be anything else that does that (i.e.; anything else that injects a DLL into the process space of other applications, something that can cause problems that would otherwise not occur). :)

Author:  rdnckreaper [ Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

What exactly is Ctrl + F11 suppose to do and where am I suppose to use it. When I use that just on my desktop it does nothing.
I cannot get into the preferences of Workshelf to stop the autohide and add the CPU module. Is there an xml file or something that I could use Notepad ++ to get into and change an autohide flag or something?
I have never had an issue with Zone Alarm and Winstep and I have used both for several years. I have went inside and gave Winstep all the rights that I can. Could it possibly being Windows Defender doing something?

Edit Update: I went into my services and processes and changed the priority to RealTime for everything Winstep. When I rebooted my system I was actually able to get into everything and currently have the CPU and RAM monitor modules running. I will update with what I find out.
Thank you all for the recommendations.

Edit Update: So the dock itself freezes but the CPU and RAM and Network Modules are all still working even though I cannot do anything with the rest of the dock. I have the task bar in my dock and that works fine and clicking modules works but trying to get the right-click dock menu doesn't work, clicking on a dock item or sub-dock doesn't work...now I am really lost

Author:  winstep [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

CTRL+F11, unless you changed the key combination in Preferences, should open WorkShelf Preferences at any time, provided WorkShelf is running and not frozen.

To see if you changed that key combination, do whatever you normally do to open WorkShelf Preferences and check out the Preferences Hotkey section in the General tab of WorkShelf Preferences.

As for the weird behavior you are describing, I really have no idea and I'm having a hard time visualizing what might be going on there, sorry. You really shouldn't (need to) run Winstep processes in real time either...

Think you can do a video of whatever is going on there?

Author:  rdnckreaper [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

I can attempt a video but it is literally that it is frozen where ever it is located.
I have went as far as to 100% uninstall it with RevoUninstaller. This deleted all files and registery items associated with it. Then I rebooted and upon reboot completed a fresh install and then restored my backups.
Let my computer sit for about 10 minutes and then everything Workshelf froze. It was still showing but I could not right-click it. Ctrl + F11 didn't work to bring up the Preferences. I have both a dock and a shelf but on seperate screens. I had the hopes that the fresh install would work so I rehid the dock which no longer activates using the bottom edge bump. The shelf is docked to the bottom of another screen and the labels are shown but when I click on it I get the Windows DING and nothing happens. I have the 5 workshelf modules attached to my NextStart bar (Recycler, CPU, NET, RAM, and Calendar). Double clicking all of them works except for Calendar and they are still monitoring even though nothing else Workshelf will activate.
I will attempt a screen capture video and see if I can show you everything that happens.

Author:  rdnckreaper [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

I have made the videos but I cannot get them to upload so I have put them in a Google Drive so you can download them.
There are 3 videos and they aren't large in size.
1: Workshelf Working after a Reboot
2: Workshelf in the beginning stages of Freezing (stalling)
3: Workhelf completely frozen.
Here is the link.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

I hope seeing what is going on will help.

Author:  winstep [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

Thanks for the videos, they truly helped me understand what is going on there. Normally you would upload them to Youtube and then post a link here.

Anyway, at first I thought it might be something similar to a memory or resource leak that would be causing the issue, but then I saw that WorkShelf remained completely unresponsive even after restarting the process. The only thing that seems to (temporarily) solve it is a reboot.

This can only mean one thing: whatever is causing the issue, it must be something external to WorkShelf.

By this I mean something external that WorkShelf relies on to gather information. If that something slows down over time, it will make WorkShelf slow down in turn too as it tries to gather information from it.

Figuring out what that thing might be can only be accomplished by trial and error, and as such it will take some time and effort until we get lucky. We must selectively turn off specific features in WorkShelf to see which makes the issue go away.

First thing I need you to do: open the Windows Task Manager and go to the Details tab. Right click one of the headers (i.e.; where it says Name, PID, Status, CPU, etc...) and select 'Select Columns'. Make sure CPU, Memory (Active private working set), Commit Size, Handles, User Objects and GDI Objects are selected.

When WorkShelf starts to slow down again, open the Windows Task Manager and post a screenshot of the Details tab showing the WorkShelf.exe entry. Also, look up for WsxService.exe, try to show that one as well.

Also, what CPU do you have? How many cores? Does it have hyper threading enabled?

Look in the Details tab for *something else* with an unusually high CPU usage (what 'unusually high' means on your system depends on how many cores your CPU has, for instance, on a 4 core CPU with hyper threading disabled, 25% CPU usage in Task Manager actually means 100% usage of one CPU core).

Something else you should try: make a backup of your WorkShelf settings and then close *all* the desktop modules (right click the Nexus control icon -> Desktop Modules -> Close All Modules). Next part is going to be more tricky: you MUST remove ALL references to ALL modules from ALL docks and Shelves. Only when there are no active references to a particular module ANYWHERE will WorkShelf disable any information gathering related to that particular module.

Try stoping the Winstep Xtreme service (Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Services) and then restarting WorkShelf to see if that fixes the issue (if not, immediately re-start the service, please).

When WorkShelf starts to slow down you can also try (but ONLY after backing up your current settings, of course) reset WorkShelf to factory default to see if that changes anything (WorkShelf Preferences -> Advanced tab -> Troubleshooting Options -> Reset Everything). Or reset settings only first, then reset content only, etc...

If you are technically minded, it is also possible to use the Windows Resource Monitor (Windows Task Manager -> Performance tab -> Open Resource Monitor at the bottom) for clues by selecting the WorkShelf.exe process when WorkShelf starts misbehaving.

Author:  rdnckreaper [ Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

I have an AMD FX-8350 Octo-Core. It is not overclocked and since it is AMD there is no hyperthreading as that is Intel proprietary tech. I also have 16Gb of ram and I let Windows 10 control the V-Ram.
I closed all the monitoring modules upon a reboot to see what would happen and it still ended up freezing. I did leave the Recycler, Reboot, and Shutdown modules in the dock.
I looked through the Services and the only thing I see in there is Winstep Xtreme Service even though you can see from the attachment that Workshelf says it is Running with 258 User Objects and 342 GDI Obj.
I will try tonight to reboot and get the information when the freezing is starting.

Attachments:
task manager.jpg
task manager.jpg [ 61.16 KiB | Viewed 1538 times ]

Author:  winstep [ Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

Please remove the recycler module too... The others you mentioned are internal commands (ICs), not quite the same thing (although some, like the language bar IC, might do a little monitoring of their own).

Also, when WorkShelf begins to slow down, check the Details tab of the Windows Task Manager to see if winstep.exe is also running (that is the process that, among other things, actually enumerates the number of files in your recycle bin and their sizes on request, and then passes that information along).

Also, extremely long shot, but is your location in the weather module settings panel using a METAR code or just a Weather.com code?

Finally, that screenshot of the Task Manager, was it taken when WorkShelf was unresponsive or operating normally?

Author:  nexter [ Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

rdnckreaper wrote:
I have an AMD FX-8350 Octo-Core. It is not overclocked and since it is AMD there is no hyperthreading as that is Intel proprietary tech. I also have 16Gb of ram and I let Windows 10 control the V-Ram.
I closed all the monitoring modules upon a reboot to see what would happen and it still ended up freezing. I did leave the Recycler, Reboot, and Shutdown modules in the dock.
I looked through the Services and the only thing I see in there is Winstep Xtreme Service even though you can see from the attachment that Workshelf says it is Running with 258 User Objects and 342 GDI Obj.
I will try tonight to reboot and get the information when the freezing is starting.

AMD chips do have hyperthreading but AMD call it something else, and IIRC none of the FX series have it. I have a 12-core, 24 thread Threadripper and 256 Gig RAM (all shortly being sold off - who TF needs that kind of power? Certainly not I!). Boots Linux Debian instantly, Windows 10 Enterprise in a few seconds.

Also, your Winstep resource use seems rather high in that screen grab? I run Winstep on my laptop (quad core i7, 16Gig) and never see anything near that high...

Author:  winstep [ Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winstep Extreme and Windows 10 1903

nexter wrote:
Also, your Winstep resource use seems rather high in that screen grab? I run Winstep on my laptop (quad core i7, 16Gig) and never see anything near that high...


It's not high at all actually... resource usage depends on a lot of things, but that is definitely not something that would raise suspicions. :)

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