Winstep

Software Technologies


 Winstep Forums


Print view
Board index : Winstep Forums : General Discussion  [ 10 posts ]
Author Message
 Post subject: Theme Building
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:39 am
Posts: 69
Yeah I found the 'Alpha' theme builder but as mentioned it was very limited and only for Docks - whereas I was more interested in WorkShelves (and taskbar).

I also downloaded an earlier version of Xtreme (which I run in a VM) that lets me see some of the config change parameters - that was after I had worked out some of the basic config file names!

Unfortunately the config files aren't commented, so its a bit of pot luck at which parameters affect different application aspects. Even then, from what I've seen to date, they don't necessarily affect them in a consistent fashion.

As you say the number of active 'themers' seems to be pretty low, and I'm not sure whether that is mainly because there is a reduced interest in customisation these days, or because there is less knowledge of the availability / benefit / need for these type of tools. However in some respects that makes it more important that the knowledge of how to perform these customisations is captured / documented.

From a personal perspective I'm not a whizzy, graphics focused person and am primarily after a simple theme that uses a minimal amount of screen real estate, with good clarity, and a clear / usable menu interface. I'm currently using a kludge of two themes (one for workshelf, and the other for the taskbar) which I have modded to meet my basic needs - but definitely is not the final product. When time permits I will continue to experiment with the theme configs to create a simple theme that satisfies my day-on-day requirements. However this activity would certainly be simplified if there was more information on how the theme configs and parameters worked.

It may just be my current limited understanding, but I think that some of the things I've seen so far will need Jorge to fix some 'peculiarities'.

Any further information on theme creation that you can provide would be most welcome.

I would certainly welcome a separate forum for this subject area, but don't know if there is enough interest from other users to warrant it. It would be useful if others could provide feedback!

I've requested access to the beta forum, but again this awaits Jorges return......


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Theme Building
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:57 am 
Offline
Global Moderator
Global Moderator

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:19 pm
Posts: 2330
Location: Here, there, and everywhere
techlobo wrote:
Yeah I found the 'Alpha' theme builder but as mentioned it was very limited and only for Docks - whereas I was more interested in WorkShelves (and taskbar).

I also downloaded an earlier version of Xtreme (which I run in a VM) that lets me see some of the config change parameters - that was after I had worked out some of the basic config file names!

Unfortunately the config files aren't commented, so its a bit of pot luck at which parameters affect different application aspects. Even then, from what I've seen to date, they don't necessarily affect them in a consistent fashion.

As you say the number of active 'themers' seems to be pretty low, and I'm not sure whether that is mainly because there is a reduced interest in customisation these days, or because there is less knowledge of the availability / benefit / need for these type of tools. However in some respects that makes it more important that the knowledge of how to perform these customisations is captured / documented.

From a personal perspective I'm not a whizzy, graphics focused person and am primarily after a simple theme that uses a minimal amount of screen real estate, with good clarity, and a clear / usable menu interface. I'm currently using a kludge of two themes (one for workshelf, and the other for the taskbar) which I have modded to meet my basic needs - but definitely is not the final product. When time permits I will continue to experiment with the theme configs to create a simple theme that satisfies my day-on-day requirements. However this activity would certainly be simplified if there was more information on how the theme configs and parameters worked.

It may just be my current limited understanding, but I think that some of the things I've seen so far will need Jorge to fix some 'peculiarities'.

Any further information on theme creation that you can provide would be most welcome.

I would certainly welcome a separate forum for this subject area, but don't know if there is enough interest from other users to warrant it. It would be useful if others could provide feedback!

I've requested access to the beta forum, but again this awaits Jorges return......

Yes, I did say that alpha's dock only. :)

Workshelf config is if not perfectly straightforward certainly just about doable, but NextStart taskbar is a real minefield - even I still have problems with that as I missed out on parts of it during a hiatus from here.

Having the config files commented would make them a lot larger and also quite possibly even more confusing for some people - a proper guide though would help, or better still of course the 'thing that must not be named', a Theme Builder. Although that might actually not be the whole story either as it might miss out on a few neat tricks, esp. in re: the modules.

As for the scarcity of active themers, the lack of clear and concise information as to 'how to' etc. does not help I'm sure, but generally, more than anything it's just that the whole skinning/theming thing has almost completely fallen out of favour. The only programmes that are still actively developed that use skins or themes are Winstep, and Rainmeter (although that is a completely different kettle of fish), and perhaps Windowblinds. Basically, skinning's dead. Or very nearly so. And I wouldn't expect a revival. Ever.

Much as I'd like to help and provide further details about theme creation, the config files and so on, I unfortunately just don't have the time to do so, it's just too involved, sorry. And bear in mind, you really need to be able to do some simple GFX at least in order to do your own themes, and some of these will have to at least approximate the intended size of the over all item.

Maybe Jorge can be persuaded to set up a theming forum, who knows. :) If there isn't enough interest - and I rather suspect there wouldn't be - we could always move posts back into 'General Discussion' and kill the forum, I suppose.

And yes, I'm afraid that things like group assignment (to access the 'Beta' forum) need admin privilege. But in any event, that forum's been pretty dead really in recent years as most beta discussion moved here anyway.

_________________
nexter - so, what's next?

Just a volunteer Moderator, not connected to or affiliated with Winstep Software Technologies, and not an official part of customer service though I do try to help when and where I can if my scarce time permits


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Theme Building
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:20 pm 
Offline
Global Moderator
Global Moderator

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:19 pm
Posts: 2330
Location: Here, there, and everywhere
nexter wrote:
Maybe Jorge can be persuaded to set up a theming forum, who knows. :) If there isn't enough interest - and I rather suspect there wouldn't be - we could always move posts back into 'General Discussion' and kill the forum, I suppose.

Well, the deafening silence in here so far does rather confirm my suspicion that there would not be sufficient interest to warrant a separate forum, alas. :(

_________________
nexter - so, what's next?

Just a volunteer Moderator, not connected to or affiliated with Winstep Software Technologies, and not an official part of customer service though I do try to help when and where I can if my scarce time permits


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Theme Building
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:39 am
Posts: 69
Agreed, unfortunately. :cry:


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Theme Building
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:32 pm 
Offline
Global Moderator
Global Moderator

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:19 pm
Posts: 2330
Location: Here, there, and everywhere
techlobo wrote:
Agreed, unfortunately. :cry:

And yet, there seems to be at least some vague interest, judging by the number of views....

_________________
nexter - so, what's next?

Just a volunteer Moderator, not connected to or affiliated with Winstep Software Technologies, and not an official part of customer service though I do try to help when and where I can if my scarce time permits


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Theme Building
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:36 pm 
Offline
Global Moderator
Global Moderator

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:19 pm
Posts: 2330
Location: Here, there, and everywhere
Interest seems to be flagging here, so I'd say there's absolutely zero prospect for - nor point in! - a separate theming forum or sub-forum at present. The situation could, of course, change once we have that 'thing that must not be named' (i.e., the mythical 'Theme Builder' - aargh! Bugger! Now I've done it and named it! ;) ) and the dedicated Winstep Themes repository. But at least one of these could be far, far off in time, alas....

_________________
nexter - so, what's next?

Just a volunteer Moderator, not connected to or affiliated with Winstep Software Technologies, and not an official part of customer service though I do try to help when and where I can if my scarce time permits


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Theme Building
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:54 pm
Posts: 3
Location: USA
I just joined the Winstep Forums and perusing all the different topics. I am especially interested in themes, especially vertical themes. I previously used Stardock's programs, then switched to Winstep, which I preferredl. I recently tried ObjectDock again, just to see if it had been improved, but no luck. I do like some of the programs, such as Cursor FX, but I'm not touching WindowBlinds or some of the others. I upgraded my laptop to Win 11 and it has been working beautifully, so I don't want to mess it up!

I plan to install Winstep and start reacquainting myself with its features. I would like to explore the issue of theming with whoever else is interested. I have been agonizing over which external monitor to buy, since I want one that is 30 inches or over and also want one that pivots into a vertical monitor. Hence, my interest in vertical themes. I have wondered if it is a good idea to consider getting both a wide monitor and also a vertical monitor instead of switching one monitor back and forth.

I've learned that so many things come around in cycles, and I wouldn't be surprised if theming is one of them. If new themes, especially those that are different, such as vertical themes, are made available, it could give people a pause and consider trying them out again. Now that so many people are working from home or doing hybrid WFH arrangements, many with shiny new laptops, they may be interested in jazzing up those laptops to help enliven their "working environment" on the PCs.

I've thought that this is a good time to encourage people to look into the functional advantages of using Winstep to increase/improve efficiency.

I apologize for my windy introduction :\ I wanted to let you all know that there is interest in theming, at least from my end, so I'm hoping we can explore this further. I am looking forward to doing so, and getting to know other forum members!


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Theme Building
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:54 am 
Offline
Global Moderator
Global Moderator

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:19 pm
Posts: 2330
Location: Here, there, and everywhere
drjolie wrote:
I just joined the Winstep Forums and perusing all the different topics. I am especially interested in themes, especially vertical themes. I previously used Stardock's programs, then switched to Winstep, which I preferredl. I recently tried ObjectDock again, just to see if it had been improved, but no luck. I do like some of the programs, such as Cursor FX, but I'm not touching WindowBlinds or some of the others. I upgraded my laptop to Win 11 and it has been working beautifully, so I don't want to mess it up!

I plan to install Winstep and start reacquainting myself with its features. I would like to explore the issue of theming with whoever else is interested. I have been agonizing over which external monitor to buy, since I want one that is 30 inches or over and also want one that pivots into a vertical monitor. Hence, my interest in vertical themes. I have wondered if it is a good idea to consider getting both a wide monitor and also a vertical monitor instead of switching one monitor back and forth.

I've learned that so many things come around in cycles, and I wouldn't be surprised if theming is one of them. If new themes, especially those that are different, such as vertical themes, are made available, it could give people a pause and consider trying them out again. Now that so many people are working from home or doing hybrid WFH arrangements, many with shiny new laptops, they may be interested in jazzing up those laptops to help enliven their "working environment" on the PCs.

I've thought that this is a good time to encourage people to look into the functional advantages of using Winstep to increase/improve functionality.

I apologize for my windy introduction :\ I wanted to let you all know that there is interest in theming, at least from my end, so I'm hoping we can explore this further. I am looking forward to doing so, and getting to know other forum members!

ObjectDock hasn't seen any development for a few years now, and unless I'm very much mistaken the only Stardock app still in active development is WindowBlinds. (Which I tried some years ago and very swiftly removed again when I realised it had made a complete mess of my registry settings when it was supposed to return to the Windows defaults. Took me a good few hours to get everything back to normal. Wouldn't touch it with a bargepole again.)

Where monitors are concerned, whether to use a separate horizontal and vertical monitor very much depends on how many apps you need displayed at the same time, and on the way you work. Personally, most of the time I'm perfectly happy with one vertical monitor, the exception being when working with most GFX. Vertical is incredibly useful with any textual apps, esp. with things like WP, text editing, and the like of course. I'd been dreaming of vertical monitors for decades, ever since first encountering them while working with some of the major workstations of the day. But there are times when I'd prefer to use both a V and a H monitor together, when working on one of my Linux boxes with GFX. But of course, YMMV.

As regards theming/skinning, I very much doubt that it will ever return to anything like the popularity it once enjoyed. I also tend to think that that is not necessarily a bad thing. As I see it, theming offered far too much choice to the user, and too much choice is decidedly not a good thing in anything. (One just has to look at the consumer society we have become and the waste that results from that.)

Concerning vertical themes in the Winstep context, the main problem really is that most if not all wallpapers simply don't fit the vertical format. But even some of the Winstep components don't work too well even when used vertically with a horizontal display. The prime example is the NextSTART Taskbar; it really needs a lot of TLC to make it look better when vertical. The simplest solution to the problem would be for theme builders to include both an H and a V wallpaper with their themes, and - ideally - the Winstep app switching to the relevant WP. Otherwise, the user would have to just rename the WP file accordingly, but this would only work in the case of a single monitor or all monitors using the same orientation. The other thing is that in many themes, some components just don't look good or right in another orientation to that which the theme creator used. The remedy for that would be using separate GFX for V and H orientation, which can already be done. This especially seems to affect docks, which can look quite odd in V orientation as so many themes try to copy the ghastly Mac dock.

More generally, theme creation for Winstep at present is not for the faint hearted and requires familiarity with the multitude of configuration files for themes. This is due to the present shortage of documentation and especially the absence of 'the thing that must not be named', i.e., a new graphical theme creation utility. There was one until about 12 years ago or so, which was part of the 'Preferences' panel, but fairly radical changes meant that this had to be dropped and would have to become a separate app. (Jorge had made a start on this a good long while ago and there is an alpha for the dock, but he hates working further on this and the very mention of it which is why we tend to refer to it as 'the thing that must not be named'. ;) )

Sorry for the 'windy' reply. ;) (Sorry Windy, no connection intended.) (Windy is one of the long term users and a regularly active member of this board.)

_________________
nexter - so, what's next?

Just a volunteer Moderator, not connected to or affiliated with Winstep Software Technologies, and not an official part of customer service though I do try to help when and where I can if my scarce time permits


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Theme Building
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:39 am
Posts: 69
Hi drjolie, welcome to the forum.

As mentioned elsewhere 'theming' appears to be a bit of an art form, and possibly a dying one at that (or at least dormant).

My personal interest is primarily functional (and largely minimalist) as I am not an artistic type.

I am happy to get involved in discussion around this topic, but there is a distinct lack of documentation (and / or howto examples) available. It would be useful if someone with the relevant knowledge could document the config file structure and parameter purpose, otherwise the exercise becomes experimental (suck it and see!). Hint, hint Jorge :roll:

If the Theme Builder were ever completed it may assist in this process - if only by providing the aforementioned documentation / examples.

Failing that we may have to 'self-document' via the experimentation approach mentioned earlier.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Theme Building
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:08 am 
Offline
Global Moderator
Global Moderator

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:19 pm
Posts: 2330
Location: Here, there, and everywhere
techlobo wrote:
I am happy to get involved in discussion around this topic, but there is a distinct lack of documentation (and / or howto examples) available. It would be useful if someone with the relevant knowledge could document the config file structure and parameter purpose, otherwise the exercise becomes experimental (suck it and see!). Hint, hint Jorge :roll:

If the Theme Builder were ever completed it may assist in this process - if only by providing the aforementioned documentation / examples.

Failing that we may have to 'self-document' via the experimentation approach mentioned earlier.

Ouch, you've done it now, techlobo - named 'the thing that must not be named'. ;) We don't want to upset Jorge now, do we? :P

Each component of Winstep, inc. each individual module, has its own separate configuration file. It really wouldn't be feasible for anyone to document all of these here, alas. It would only make sense as part of a complete user manual as it would require a major effort and a lot of time. And a complete user manual - unless it can frequently be revised - is not an easy proposition either with an app that constantly evolves and changes still.

'The thing that must not be named', if or when it does come along, will be entirely GUI based and thus almost foolproof. (But then, remember the better mousetrap analogy.... ;) )

The 'suck it and see' approach can lead to all kinds of complications even when one has a fair idea of what one is doing. Further, the GFX requirements can and do vary a fair bit, with some elements - e.g., some icons - having to conform to a standard size, others need to have their size specified in the relevant config file, and so on. And for someone who has never created a theme or skin, the whole thing will be very much an uphill and often very frustrating struggle.

I'm quite rusty in the theme creation area myself, not having made any themes for about 3 years or so due to an unresolved problem with one particular theme. However, I'm always happy to help out with individual queries if I can.

_________________
nexter - so, what's next?

Just a volunteer Moderator, not connected to or affiliated with Winstep Software Technologies, and not an official part of customer service though I do try to help when and where I can if my scarce time permits


Back to top
 Profile  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic Board index : Winstep Forums : General Discussion  [ 10 posts ]
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 49 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron