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 Post subject: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:40 pm 
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Hello

I'm using Winstep Nexus for a few days now, and configured in such a way to replace my windows taskbar.

On thing that I'm missing is a way of simple showing the windows tray clock/hours on the dock. I don't want it as an icon look and feel and animations, the module that exists doesn't match any look and feel on how I configure my UI's.

So I was wondering if there is any way to show the simple clock from the tray with the normal system fonts, just as part of the tray area on the dock.

Something simple and very functional, like this:

Attachment:
Nexus_simple-clock.png
Nexus_simple-clock.png [ 6.54 KiB | Viewed 9362 times ]


I'm using the free version, does the paid version allows this?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:56 pm 
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flep wrote:
Hello

I'm using Winstep Nexus for a few days now, and configured in such a way to replace my windows taskbar.

On thing that I'm missing is a way of simple showing the windows tray clock/hours on the dock. I don't want it as an icon look and feel and animations, the module that exists doesn't match any look and feel on how I configure my UI's.

So I was wondering if there is any way to show the simple clock from the tray with the normal system fonts, just as part of the tray area on the dock.

Something simple and very functional, like this:



I'm using the free version, does the paid version allows this?

Thanks

As versatile as Nexus is, a taskbar replacement it is not, although it can do many of the things a taskbar can. However, if that suits your way of using your PC, good luck. :)

As for a simple clock a la the Windows system tray clock, no, afraid not available. The subject of a 'cleaner, leaner' clock module has been raised in the past, but there seem to have been too few voices to get something done. The nearest thing would be, if you go to Preferences, go to the modules tab and select clock module. Then select the digital clock, and click on 'clock settings'. There, select 'show time only'. (IIRC.) This should give you a relatively simple clock, albeit with ghastly old-fashioned and not very clear 'LED'-look numbers.

In respect of the clock, I'm afraid there is no difference between Nexus free and Nexus Ultimate.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:46 pm 
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nexter wrote:
The nearest thing would be, if you go to Preferences, go to the modules tab and select clock module. Then select the digital clock, and click on 'clock settings'. There, select 'show time only'. (IIRC.) This should give you a relatively simple clock, albeit with ghastly old-fashioned and not very clear 'LED'-look numbers.


In addition, after doing that and on the same Modules tab of Preferences, you can click the Change Icon button to change the background of the Digital Clock to an empty/clear PNG bitmap. This will result in only the clock time digits being (sort of) visible - you can then drag the clock module icon in your dock to the left of the systray section (but not INTO the systray section).

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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:28 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
The nearest thing would be, if you go to Preferences, go to the modules tab and select clock module. Then select the digital clock, and click on 'clock settings'. There, select 'show time only'. (IIRC.) This should give you a relatively simple clock, albeit with ghastly old-fashioned and not very clear 'LED'-look numbers.


In addition, after doing that and on the same Modules tab of Preferences, you can click the Change Icon button to change the background of the Digital Clock to an empty/clear PNG bitmap. This will result in only the clock time digits being (sort of) visible - you can then drag the clock module icon in your dock to the left of the systray section (but not INTO the systray section).


Hi

thanks for replying, great tool btw.

Yeah I did all that already but sadly still doesn't look good. As I use only 30px icon sizes the clock is very small. Did a few tests with different PNG's sizes like 256/128/64/30 and even like 128x64 but to no avail, the non square test gets really wonky and doesn't render the font bigger like I was expecting.

Attachment:
configured.png
configured.png [ 17.71 KiB | Viewed 9326 times ]


Oh well, was worth the try. I would love a version with a simple clock on tray area outside of the module stuff, would gladly pay for it, and I imagine it wouldn't be much complicated to have a tray clock.

Should I add this on the Wishlist post?


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:56 pm 
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flep wrote:

Oh well, was worth the try. I would love a version with a simple clock on tray area outside of the module stuff, would gladly pay for it, and I imagine it wouldn't be much complicated to have a tray clock.

Should I add this on the Wishlist post?


not sure Jorge could find the time for that request himself, but is the dock clock icon skinnable? maybe if you can find an active skin maker they could do it?

if/when the 'What-That-Must-Not-Be-Named' comes, mybe ordinary users like us could do some skin modifications like that


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:09 pm 
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Being an icon (i.e. iconic module on the dock), only the background of the clock is customizable. The actual text font, position and size cannot be changed, only the color.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:39 pm 
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winstep wrote:
Being an icon (i.e. iconic module on the dock), only the background of the clock is customizable. The actual text font, position and size cannot be changed, only the color.


ah, there goes my brilliant solution


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:21 pm 
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Isn't it time really to change the clock module and bring it into the modern age? Something along the lines that I suggested a few years ago perhaps. Background could remain as only 'skinnable' option, but using a decent font (you really couldn't go far wrong with something like Gill Sans, or Déja Vous Sans/Sans Condensed) and option to show time only or time, day, date. Font colour would be nice to be optional.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:29 pm 
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nexter wrote:
Isn't it time really to change the clock module and bring it into the modern age? Something along the lines that I suggested a few years ago perhaps. Background could remain as only 'skinnable' option, but using a decent font (you really couldn't go far wrong with something like Gill Sans, or Déja Vous Sans/Sans Condensed) and option to show time only or time, day, date. Font colour would be nice to be optional.

And here we go - my original post about better default clock module (and calendar module) complete with illustrations in icon sizes from 128 px. down to 16 px -

https://forums.winstep.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10874

There's even a poll there (that Jorge rigged! :P ) as well. :)

Something like what's shown there surely would be a far better, cleaner, more modern choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:36 pm 
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nexter wrote:
There's even a poll there (that Jorge rigged! :P ) as well. :)


Ihihihih :P

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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:02 pm 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
There's even a poll there (that Jorge rigged! :P ) as well. :)


Ihihihih :P

LOL! Did too! :P (Actually, the whole issue too, from start to finish. :P )

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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:32 pm 
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On a more serious note, it's well worth repeating the original argument and illustrations here for clarity, in view of the OP's post.

The iconified digital clock (and calendar) module is a) just hopelessly out of date and even its 'eye candy' appeal is now more than dubious, and b) its information content is devalued by a truly antequated LED matrix font and other factors.

Incidentally, the backgrounds of the example (alternative) clock and calendar is a dark cyan. Font is the classic Gill Sans.

And here it is, in 128px size, with the clock using the alternative, slightly better, background-skinnable version :
Attachment:
File comment: The current default digital clock & calendar, 128px
001023_Example-OrglTxtClocl+Cal.png
001023_Example-OrglTxtClocl+Cal.png [ 37.07 KiB | Viewed 9267 times ]

Pretty horrible, really, isn't it? Imagine trying to read the clock at a smaller size! Well, imagine no more. :) Here's the example of a possible new (alternative) iconified clock, alongside the current default, in sizes from 128px to 16px :
Attachment:
File comment: Example of (alt.) digital iconified clock
001021_ExampleDigClock_+Def.png
001021_ExampleDigClock_+Def.png [ 34.21 KiB | Viewed 9267 times ]

Now, isn't the example a) much more modern looking and more attractive and b) having a much higher information content/value?

Just for completeness, here's the same treatment for the calendar module :
Attachment:
File comment: Same treatment, calendar mod
001018_ExampleCal_+Def.png
001018_ExampleCal_+Def.png [ 49.55 KiB | Viewed 9267 times ]


Isn't it more than past time these iconified modules were brought into the 21st century? Let us be perfectly clear though, we are decidedly *NOT* talking about freeform skinning for iconified modules. Just a better way of presenting information and a cleaner, more modern look. That would go a long way towards the OP's wish for something like the Windows system tray clock, too, I think. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2022 2:25 am 
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nexter wrote:
Isn't it time really to change the clock module and bring it into the modern age? Something along the lines that I suggested a few years ago perhaps. Background could remain as only 'skinnable' option, but using a decent font (you really couldn't go far wrong with something like Gill Sans, or Déja Vous Sans/Sans Condensed) and option to show time only or time, day, date. Font colour would be nice to be optional.


I did found your original post from years ago and saw how it ended. And as an UX developer myself I would say that it's way past time.

Quite honestly I just discovered this app so I'm not sure what's the history here, but I can't quite understand why such a basic and functional thing like a clock is so much neglected on this app and any suggestions to it is basically ignored.

And I'm pretty sure the clock module and all fancy things it has must had demanded way more work than a direct way to display the windows tray clock like I suggested (I even provided the mockup with the Windows font, cmon now), considering how the tray area is already integrated on the app and the clock module itself you can even configure to trigger the same Windows calendar we trigger from the stock tray clock.

Even if a completely redesign of the clock module is something the developer just don't want to spend time with it (maybe he doesn't see value in that), It MUST be a very simple thing to have a checkbox on the system tray configuration of this app with "show tray clock" and that's it, no extra configurations needed for simple and minimalistic people like myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2022 4:40 am 
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flep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Isn't it time really to change the clock module and bring it into the modern age? Something along the lines that I suggested a few years ago perhaps. Background could remain as only 'skinnable' option, but using a decent font (you really couldn't go far wrong with something like Gill Sans, or Déja Vous Sans/Sans Condensed) and option to show time only or time, day, date. Font colour would be nice to be optional.


I did found your original post from years ago and saw how it ended. And as an UX developer myself I would say that it's way past time.

Quite honestly I just discovered this app so I'm not sure what's the history here, but I can't quite understand why such a basic and functional thing like a clock is so much neglected on this app and any suggestions to it is basically ignored.

And I'm pretty sure the clock module and all fancy things it has must had demanded way more work than a direct way to display the windows tray clock like I suggested (I even provided the mockup with the Windows font, cmon now), considering how the tray area is already integrated on the app and the clock module itself you can even configure to trigger the same Windows calendar we trigger from the stock tray clock.

Even if a completely redesign of the clock module is something the developer just don't want to spend time with it (maybe he doesn't see value in that), It MUST be a very simple thing to have a checkbox on the system tray configuration of this app with "show tray clock" and that's it, no extra configurations needed for simple and minimalistic people like myself.

Ah yes, things are so much simpler under Unix/-like systems than Windblows. (I used to use Nextstep/Openstep back in the day, as well as Solaris and Irix, and my main OS nowadays is Linux, mainly Ubuntu) :)

Alas, things are not quite as straightforward as they may seem, nor as simple. The 'system tray' in Nexus (and the Nextstart taskbar) is actually a kind of emulation/simulation of the Windows system tray. To incorporate a clock in there would, in the first place, require the ability to have several clock modules - if I'm not entirely mistaken - and that is something that, at present, has not been implemented yet and which will require a major re-write of the Workshelf code. (It is on Jorge's 'to do' list, though.)

As for the existing clock module, that started life on the Workshelf, originally as a copy - of sorts - of the original Nextstep clock in its Granddaddy of all docks. It got a revamp to the current default sometime around the end of the noughties IIRC. The programme was very much inspired by the GUI of Nextstep/Openstep originally, and I've been with the project since its inception around 1998, providing much of the info (and original GFX) on the OS, having been forced to go to NT4 by Steve Jobs' betrayal of us old Next users to turn it into a very dumbed-down OS for the 'rotten fruit'. ;)

Just as the Winstep apps in general have long left their Nextstep inspiration behind, so it's long past time to get shot of that horrible, next to illegible, LED matrix font and general 'macOS' look of the clock module, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there a way to show the simple windows tray clock?
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 8:35 am 
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flep wrote:
Quite honestly I just discovered this app so I'm not sure what's the history here, but I can't quite understand why such a basic and functional thing like a clock is so much neglected on this app and any suggestions to it is basically ignored.


Neglected?! You have two clock styles (analog and digital) PLUS a third optional style for those who do not like the original date + time digital style, and you can even customize the background of each of those styles with your own image (and I am not even mentioning here the FUNCTIONAL part of the clock module).

And all this for an ***ICON*** in the dock! We're not even talking about desktop modules which - those yes - were intended to be free form skinnable from the very beginning, icons in a dock are not skinnable and were never intended to be - the fact that there are customization options for **iconic** modules is already a huge bonus.

Yet, you call it "much neglected"... ok, you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm just not building a whole skinning engine - as I did for desktop modules - for icons in the dock. If you want to call that being neglectful, ah well... :roll:

Aesthetics is a personal thing. For every person who would prefer a simple black and white version of the clock like the one suggested here, there are probably ten or more who prefer it as it is. You can't please everyone and I am not about to create 999 different versions of the same ICONIC clock module: you already have three and even if you had 999 that STILL would not be enough to satisfy everyone.

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