I haven't looked at WinStep for a few years now, since I started using WindowBlinds... but since WindowBlinds doesn't actually support the start menu the way I want it to work, I've been looking for alternatives...

The WinStep themes pages show the Start Menu being themed by it, but when I install the program, I don't see that... How do I enable this feature??

[ Note, I do *not* have Stardocks Start 10/Start 11 installed on this machine ]

I believe what you are seeing on the theme pages is the Nextstart Menu and not the Windows 10 Start Menu. I don't believe the Windows 10 Start Menu can be changed by Winstep Xtreme.

If you are slightly ambitious (it really isn't very difficult), you could add a Grid Stack to the taskbar, name the Grid Stack Start Menu, and change the default Grid Stack icon to a Windows Flag. By experimenting with the Grid Stack Properties you change icon size and spacing.

In the attached image I created an example with custom icons I created using paint.net - a free graphics editor.

To add a Grid Stack to the taskbar I created a new horizontal Dock. Under the Insert New Dock Item I added a Regular Grid Stack. Then right click on the Quick Launch area of the taskbar and select Add New Quick Launch Item - Grid Stack. Right click on the new Dock you created and select Dock and Shelf Management - Disable Dock. The Dock will disappear and the Grid Stack will still be on the taskbar.

You can use the free program BeCyIconGrabber to extract icons from any program folder or use Google image search to find custom icons.

It's not perfect, but you will have a Start Menu that resembles the Windows 10 Start Menu.

Correct, the OP would see the Winstep Startmenu, not the Windows one. However, he could change that to completely suit his purposes - change the entries, inc. sub-menus, and so on. Much more flexible and simpler than going the way of GridStacks.

Eheh I like the idea of using a Grid Stack as a Start Menu - had never occurred to me and I made the bloody thing lol



Ah, but the rabbit hole goes much deeper than that and you can have the best of both worlds: you can create a Grid Stack as the main "page" of the Start Menu (big icons, etc) and then from that Grid Stack invoke a NextSTART hotspot. That hotspot in turn would open a NextSTART menu previously built using the NextSTART Menu Editor.

hmmm... okay, permit me to clarify my ultimate goal here...

First of all, I *DESPISE* the Windows 10-Style box menus... my entire goal in life is to avoid that!! What I require is the classic, simple, flexible Windows XP style cascading start menu. Check out the enclosed image of my existing Programs menus, to get an understanding of why the other solutions are unacceptable to me!

Although I use WindowBlinds, I do not use their Start 10/Start 11 Start Menu, because it does *not* have cascading menus, and in spite of my repeated requests, they apparently have no interest in doing that. So they are stuck with the cruddy scrolling Windows 7-style crud, or the Windows 10 boxes...

I've been using Open Start Menu, which does exactly what I want, except that WindowBlinds does not apply its skins to OSM... so I've been continuing to search for a skinnable Start Menu with the XP-style cascading menus.

The Grid Stack solution that is shown here, does not appear to provide even close to what I want, it's still just a matrix of icons.

However, it *does* sound as though the Winstep Startmenu might do what I want, yet at least allow me to skin with Winstep themes, even if I couldn't use WB themes...

However, is there a way to import my existing, huge Programs menu tree into your Startmenu?? If I have to create it from scratch, I'll probably never get around to it...

Unless you painfully added those items one by one to Open Start Menu as an internal private structure of that application (and I think not, I think it is just the plain old folder based Programs Start Menu structure that Open Start Menu is using) you won't need to import anything.

The main NextSTART menu is a menu created with the built-in Menu Editor (which you can modify at will) but the Programs item on that menu basically acts as the old XP All Programs **cascading** menu(s), browsing - and showing you - the actual Programs folder structure in your hard drive (Windows 8,10 and 11 used an hybrid solution based on an internal database rather than the old folder structure holding shortcuts to the applications installed on your system).

Anyway, Winstep Xtreme has a fully functional 30 day trial, so I suggest you download it and try it out for yourself to see if it suits your needs. If you are running Windows 11 22H2 or later you might have to manually set the Windows taskbar to auto-hide though (before MS broke that too, the Winstep application did this itself).

Since you would be using the old All Programs folder structure with the NextSTART component of Winstep Xtreme, even the Winstep Start Menu Organizer app included with Xtreme could be useful to help you re-organize that monster of yours, should you wish to do so.

Okay!! Thanks, that sounds quite reassuring...
I'll check out the trial version...

The Winstep Startmenu will let you do what you want quite easily, as per Jorge's instructions above.

But, holy crap! That menu is a nightmare. Huge? It's absolutely humongous! At the very least I would recommend creating appropriate category folders to organise that beast. Again, the StartMenu Organiser mentioned by Jorge could be a great help there. One caveat though - I used it in the early days of Windows 10 and at the time found it difficult to reverse the process, but that may not be applicable any more, and YMMV.

I find that Grid Stacks on the taskbar sometimes open behind open windows. If I move my mouse pointer to the bottom screen edge first and then open the Grid Stack, it will open in front of open windows. I don't remember having this issue in the past. I had changed a lot of settings so I tried resetting all settings and I still have the problem. Any ideas on getting this to work without moving the mouse pointer to the bottom screen edge first?

The problem is that "sometimes" does not help much. Is there a pattern you can figure out?



What do you have associated with a bump on the bottom screen edge?

Try using the ForeTester app you can download from HERE to determine what the foreground window is (and thus what might be happening) when the Grid Stack fails to pop up to the top and/or when you bump the bottom screen edge.



Microsoft in their infinite wisdom (not) decided a long time ago that applications should not be allowed to bring themselves to the foreground (despite there being an API call named 'SetForegroundWindow').

The intention was good as many applications misbehaved by often placing pop ups in front of the user even while he was working on something else, thus abruptly interrupting the user's work flow (funnily enough, Microsoft's own Outlook is/was one of the biggest culprits of doing this, even after their "fix"). But, as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

What Microsoft should have done is allow the users to filter out the applications that did this and NOT use them. Instead they neutered 'SetForegroundWindow'. This turned into an arms race to the bottom, with applications that legitimately needed to bring themselves to the foreground (such as Winstep applications) being forced to employ a multitude of tricks and workarounds to accomplish this. These "tricks" will often fail if the current foreground application is elevated, for instance.

Anyway, when you open a Grid Stack, WorkShelf tries to set that Grid Stack as the current foreground window. If it fails, it is likely the Grid Stack appears behind another window.

Heh!! You know what, though?? I *love* that structure... everything that I want is right there, readily available... and with my 30", 2560x1600 screen, I have plenty of room to see everything...

Yeah, a few of the less-commonly-used applications could be moved to holding folders, but in the past I've found that caused confusion; whenever a program wants to update, it creates new copies of its folders in the root Programs folder, and I end up with multiple copies which are a pain to manage... I prefer it this way!!

and so, I guess you can see why I love cascading menus?!?!

BTW, NextStart does *exactly* what I want!! and it is so beautiful... I still wish I could apply the WindowBlinds theme to it, instead of the Winstep them, but that's an issue between me and Stardock...

So I have renewed my license to Xtreme (I previously registered in 2015 and used it for a couple of years, before I switched to WindowBlinds).

So thank you all, again, for your helpful suggestions and discussions in this thread!! It's cool to be back with Winstep again...

Welcome back!

There is no pattern. It happens at random times. Sometimes a day or two apart. I notice it more often when I have several programs open at the same time and Firefox open with several tabs. When I switch to another tab, that can make it happen but not always. I was just able to make it happen with only Firefox and two tabs open, and that is shown on the ForeTester image. I tried to make it happen a second time and was not able to make it happen again even with six tabs and two other programs open.



The attached image shows my current bump settings. I've tried changing every setting in multiple combinations. I've tried it with the dock that has the Grid Stack that is pinned to the the taskbar, both visible and disabled. Nothing has made a difference.



I think that is the answer.

Structure? That's prominent by being absent in your cascading menu, for all intents and purposes. But, if that is what you prefer, hey, that's your privilege and your loss.

However, you could make things so much easier by using the Winstep Start Menu Organiser Pro to put all your Startmenu links into appropriate categories/sub-categories, instead of the inherently clunky method of using the actual, physical, Programs folder.