I recently had to rebuild my machine and reinstall WinStep Xtreme 8.5 full version. I restored my previous NextStart and Workshelf, however the behavior is different.

I have my shelf overlapping my startbar, with the startbar locked to the bottom edge of the screen. For some reason, even though the startbar is NOT set to always on top and the workshelf is (and set on top when collapsed as well), the workshelf appears under the startbar.

What's weird is that even when my startbar covers my collapsed workshelf, mouse clicks in the area where the workshelf sits act as if the workshelf is on top, even though I cannot see it.

Any ideas?

One question: if you drag a window over the NextSTART startbar, is the startbar on top?

It's kind of weird, Jorge. This problem doesn't happen all the time. However when it does happen, it stays that way (even if I close WSX and restart it) until I re-login. I never encountered this problem with the betas of 8.5 up until my final update with the "release" update.

Dragging a window over the start bar when it is working correctly covers the start bar except the floating tray, since I have the tray set to always on top.

When I turn the underlying Windows Task Bar to always on top it makes the problem worse and happens more often.

OTHER RELATED PROBLEMS:

In addition, there is one repeatable problem and another intermittent problem: when I exit WSX, Workshelf always crashes with one of those Windows "Program has encountered a problem" message boxes. The intermittent problem is that my digital clock in the systray still disappears from time to time, requiring a NextStart "Preview" button to get it back.

By the way, this is a completely new installation of Windows as I just had to rebuild my machine with a new motherboard.

And when it isn't working correctly?



Might have nothing to do with it (and then again it might be an imporant clue), but I've seen QuickTime completely mess up the z-order of layered windows before. Other Media Players might do the same - see if you can find a pattern.

Does this happen in all ocasions if

a) You 'Exit Winstep Xtreme' from NextSTART.
b) You 'Exit Winstep Xtreme' from WorkShelf.
c) You 'Exit WorkShelf' from WorkShelf ?



Ok, from what I understood you have the systray 'floating' rather than attached to the NextSTART Startbar, right?

Does the Systray Button really 'disappear' or do you think it simply goes 'behind' other windows?

Jorge:

A lot of observations follow. It may not be all the questions you asked, however hopefully it might give you some clues as to what is going on.

I went out for a while and my screen saver came on. When I came back, WSX was in this weird state, so let me list the odd behavior:
1. Workshelf was collapsed (as it should be) but behind the start bar (which it shouldn't be)
2. My mouse cursor, when dragged over the start bar, goes "under" the start bar.
3. The floating task bar's clock button was gone, and NOT just hidden
4. I could cause Workshelf to open up by clicking on the area where it was supposed to be, even though I could not see which collapsed icon I clicked on. Workshelf would then expand, except its bottom part was hidden behind the start bar.
5. When I drag another window over the start bar/workshelf area, a really bizarre thing happens. It's so weird, that I had to attach a picture for you to see. The window went under the start bar; the systray remained on top, but the portion of the window that overlapped Workshelf, Workshelf moved to the top. See the picture.



When I exited WSX from the start bar, Workshelf crashed.

This time, when I brought WSX up (either by launching nextstart then workshelf or just launching WSX), it came up correct with Workshelf on top. However, Workshelf continues to crash ONLY WHEN I exit WSX from the start bar, but not when I exit Workshelf from Workshelf.

I had a simalar problem when I installed 8.6 beta version. I re-installed 8.5 and the only problem I have now is when I run another program (utilitiy or game) My Icons on my desktop rearrange where there is a Blank line next to the bottom of the screen with a row of Icons below it.

that isn't a big deal however I thought since you had all these other problems that you might find time to look into that also.

I would be curious to know if anyone else has had their Icons re-arranged when they run another program.

I really thought the problem was my computer since I didn't have but 1 gig of Ram, Now I have 2 gigs of Ram and the Icon problem is still there.

If you don't have the time to look into it I can live with it..

Thanks
3flash

Sigh.

You're mixing up a lot of VERY different problems, and only a couple have to do with Winstep Xtreme.

WorkShelf crashing when you exit Winstep Xtreme from NextSTART has been fixed in the very first beta of 8.7.

The Systray Button disappearing might be a bug, but I don't know the cause yet.

All the rest are Windows bugs!

LeerJet, your z-order problems are caused by a Microsoft bug in XP. As I hinted when I mentioned QuickTime and other Media Players, Windows completely messes up the z-order of layered windows (per pixel alpha windows) after or while running programs with DirectX surfaces (such as QuickTime or Windows Media Center, for instance).

This is not a problem specific to Winstep Xtreme, it happens with EVERY and ANY program that uses per pixel alpha bitmaps (such as CursorFx, WindowBlinds, all the docks out there, etc, etc...)! Read the last post in this thread at Wincustomize for an explanation by Neil Banfield, the developer of WindowBlinds himself.

Sometimes a reboot is the only way to cure the problem. Also, try applying an older theme WITHOUT PNG backgrounds (i.e. using the old 'magic pink' method in bitmaps for transparency) to confirm this.

3Flash, your problem might be the size of the Windows Icon Cache. Read this post HERE for a possible solution to the problem. Anyway, Windows re-arranging desktop icons without warning when you change screen resolution, install or run a program, etc, has been a problem in ALL versions of Windows. Maybe THIS will help too.

Jorge:

I am just reporting what I see and trying to help you. If I didn't think that your software was so valuable, I would not waste my time! I have dumped Stardock's offerings shortly after working with WinStep, as I believe your product is far less buggy, and because you are much more willing to listen to your users.

When I developed pcAnywhere I spent 40% of my debugging efforts trying to work around numerous Microsoft bugs. Sometimes, I understand, you just have to throw your hands up. However, I know that I was tenacious in trying to find workarounds in case I could hit upon something that worked, even if it meant starting a background task to try and detect when a problem surfaced and then making the problem magically go away, at least with respect to my product..all so users would not have to do the dreaded reboot.

The confusing thing to me was why I did not have these z-order issues with WSX on my machine before the rebuild, when I have installed exactly the same programs, and meticulously force all my non-MS startup items to launch in the same order.

When you said you fixed the WorkShelf crash on beta 1 of 8.7, did you mean beta 1 of 8.6?

Sorry, yes, that's what I meant. The problem is that Xtreme release numbers
are based on year.month (therefore 8.6 would be 2008.June) but I missed
my own deadline for a June release. The next beta
(which is just out, by the way) is therefore Winstep Xtreme 8.7 Private Beta 2.



I know, and my sincere apologies if I sound too defensive at times, it's just that I'm up to my neck
with work on the new release and it's very frustrating when issues that I can't fix because
they have nothing to do with Winstep Xtreme (or because I'm unable to reproduce them here) seem
to pile up.



I know, and same here. For instance, I recently managed to work around a bug in GDI+ that prevented it
from using fonts installed while the session was active. Imagine what this did to an application like Winstep
Xtreme where users are installing new themes (and therefore the new fonts that come with them) all
the time. You can't exactly ask users to re-start Winstep Xtreme every time they install a new theme,
right?

Unfortunately there are other OS bugs, such as this one, you simply have no way of working around.



Don't know. But you could try finding the culprit: it almost certainly is a program using a DirectX
surface (usually media players and such...). Also, 8.7 beta 2 is out, so try that one too just in case.

Jorge:

More specific information on how I can reliably get the start bar image "stuck" on top:

Preview any of Microsoft's 3D screen savers and exit.

Previewing any of the other MS screen savers does not cause the problem.

My Dream Aquarium screen saver does the same thing....however, the popular Serene Screen Marine Aquarium latest (v2.6) does NOT cause the problem. In fact, when I preview Marine Aquarium and move the mouse, I can see WorkShelf hidden behind the start bar, briefly, and then it magically gets fixed!

Hopefully this is the last report unless I discover some interesting work-around.

Regards,
Lee