Hello there,

I am currently looking at "something" for my desktop. Nexus Ultimate and Winstep Xtreme look rather appealing and I have them both installed for trial purposes.

I just refer to functionality at this point, themes and effects and such are just a nice to have at this point. Would be great if someone could outline whether I got it right or overlooking something (because couldn't figure out if the trials are fully funtional or not at this point.)

1. on the quick look, I just can see one difference at this moment, that Xtreme got that start/tasbar coming with. Nexus Ultimate comes with docks, subdocks and the shelf.

2. The shelf is the only "dock" that can have tabs. Tabs can have subdocks.

3. Docks can have subdocks, but no tabs.

Here is basically what I want to achieve:

I have a 3840x1080 desktop on dual monitors running. Working on either of them I want to

a) quick access running programs on either of monitors / emulate two taskbars
- nexus dock with applications running only, duplicated and put to each monitor in the middle
--considered possible--

aa) clicking on the icon of a running window/application should open it in the monitor where the taskbar resides
--considered not possible--> any functionality in full versions maybe, since it says "dual monitor support"

b) quick access to all my stuff on either of monitors, depends where the mouse has less to travel to
- nexus dock with application, duplicated and docked to left and right
--considered possible--
bb) is there a "cloning possible"? right now I would have to either drag new icons to both docks or duplicated and reposition the new one, a "clone" would save tremendous effort here
--considered not possiblee--

bc) subdocks possible to arrange the different workareas
- tabs not possible on the docks? can the subdocks have textonly icons for example?
- if tabs only possible on the shelf, can I have more than one shelf and position them to the left and right

bd) another solution would be if I could open my "superdock" as a menu anywhere on the desktop with a hotspot maybe?

Basically I find it a bit annoying right now working on one monitor and then have to move the mouse all the way to right or left to start the next application / window. The second thing would be that one with a). Right now you move for example all the way to the left to open the window in question and it pops on the right window and you have to move back.

Would be rather awesome if someone would take the time and see whether I am getting right, what the versions are capable of and if those things I want to achieve are doable.

Comments, questions, ideas are very welcome. Sometimes one is just stuck with what you want and don't see other possibilities as well, therefore any input is greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much if you have taken the time to read up to here

Regards,

Mike

Aside from the start/taskbar, Winstep Xtreme also comes with desktop modules (widgets) that can be used in the docks and shelfs as well.

Correct, that is the whole purpose of the shelf

Correct.

No idea regarding the other stuff, as I don't really use a multi-monitor setup (but Jorge does!)

Mike,

While Winstep applications are indeed multiple monitor compatible (meaning they are aware of multiple monitors and behave correctly with them), they don't necessarily add extra functionality related to multiple monitors, such as the one you mentioned of making an application open in the same monitor where the taskbar resides.

There are also some things related to multiple monitor support that are currently missing from Xtreme but are on the to-do list, such as individual taskbars per monitor, showing only applications that appear in the same monitor that taskbar is placed at, reserving screen space on monitors other than the primary, etc... There is still a lot of space for improvement in this area.

This said, although there is only one NextSTART taskbar, nothing stops you from creating a dock set to display the system tray and running applications and place it on another monitor.

The duplicate dock feature (and indeed the whole range of Dock and Shelf management features) is unique to Winstep applications, as far as I know, and already saves tremendous effort: updating a 'cloned' dock can be as easy as deleting the old, out-of-date, clone and then re-creating it via the duplicate dock function from the original dock.

One thing you should understand is that Docks, the Shelf and Menus are all different beasts and serve different purposes. If you want a dock with text on it, you will be better off creating a NextSTART menu with the items you want.

While it's not possible to 'clone' a dock into a NextSTART menu in the same way you can currently convert a dock into a new tab in the Shelf, that is actually a good idea that makes total sense, and I might implement that feature in a later version.

As for the Shelf, currently there can only be one and it can only be placed at the top or bottom of the screen, but this will change, and soon you will be able to have multiple Shelves and place them vertically as well.

Hope this answers most of your questions.

Thank you both for your replies. They were very helpfull.

First I have changed the language back to english. It seems that the translation for German at some points is somewhat confusing at times (at least for me.)

Found this error for example:




Which was actually easy to spot, but that made we wonder, whether I was clicking stuff that I was expecting to do something that wasn't supposed to.

Nevertheless, pointing to NextStart was quite a big step forward here. Thank you very much. However, I have regarding this (what would you expect ) questions again of course and if I understood this concept.

1. I need to associate a Hotspot always to a menu, i.e. I cannot create a menu like a "dock" and just show it on my desktop.

2.

This sections says, it is possible chain created menus. I can create a menu with a submenu, what is the difference to chaining menus? Assuming you can create topmenus only and link them, but I just haven't found out how. Would it be possible to give a quick rundown please?

3. I have created two menus and given them both the Hotspot "Bumping Right Screen Edge" expecting both would pop up when bumping the ridge edge, but only one shows up. I have tried giving them different hotspotgroups, but this had no effect. I understand that opening a menu with a hotspot grouped in "default" for example would close all other menus that have their hotspot in "default" as well. The cluster would serve to leave the menu(s) open that are associated with a different hotspotgroup. What I don't understand, why is there a need of a cluster, when I cannot open multiple menus anyway with the same hotspot?

Or is it possible to open multiple menus with the same "activated by" and I am doing something wrong?

4.

Activating this makes the menu forget its position when it is moved manually. However, the menus start with Nextstart when this is unticked as well. What exactly is this supposed to do?

5. I have set the NextStart to replace the windows taskbar and the 2nd option to hide the NextStart taskbar and to detach the tasklist and system tray. I have done this because the simple clock suits my needs and I use the system tray icons to access the running apps or check whether firewall, antivirus etc. is running. Hiding it and clicking the clock to take a quick look + be able to move it somewhere else is great. When I bump though the right edge (activating a hotspot) this "clocktray" is brought topmost on other opend windows as well (noticed this, when I had it in the middle of the screen when trying stuff). I cannot find a setting for it to not do this. It is not much of a big deal, since I am going to place the clock on either corner of the monitor, but need to ask anyway.

6. I accidently deleted an applications *.exe, because I wasn't aware that the context menu's entry "delete" was the same as the right click context menu's "delete" when you do it in windows explorer on the file. I should have used "remove from dock". Since I dragged a link from my desktop to the dock, I assumed that it would delete the link and not the pointed to *.exe. Is there a way to hide this context menu? I do most of my stuff in the windows explorer anyway if it is regarding renaming, deleting of files and such. I think I will handle it with time, but opting it out (if it is possible) would be nice.

That's it for now. I apologize for being such a bother, but I don't want to end up having Winstep, Rocketdock, Objectdock, Rainmeter and whatever running, just because I need (to my idea) something real simple, might be mistaken from what I see how many questions I have.

So this I can achieve:

Docks (Nexus) - Used for taskbars left and right
NextStart - Used for the menus, submenus possible, how do chain menus fit in?
NextStart - Hide the taskbar, but not having to abandon the system tray, clickable clock is rather great, this I like very much.

For my purpose don't see a use for the workshelf at this time.

Only thing I don't see at this point is how do I duplicate a NextStart menu quickly? Since I wanted to use the same menu on right and left. Can the same menu pop up on different places of the screen? Guess I have to create one for each side and drag the new wanted to links to each of them, correct? Sorry for throwing this such late at you, I forgot totally about while fiddling with the menu stuff

Basically I see what I can achieve mostly up to now with WinStep Xtreme only (NextStart is not included in Nexus Ultimate, correct? Adding some measuring stuff from Rainmeter, I am one step closer to a clutter free desktop with quick access from either screen.

Thanks again for taking the time reading this and any input is greatly appreciated

Regards,

Mike

I dragged a shortcut from my desktop to the menu with the right mouse button, giving me options to "copy here", "move here" or "create shortcut here".

I used "create shortcut here".

On using "Remove from menu" for this shortcut I get this:



This is a bit confusing. I would assume, when I dragged the *.exe into the menu and use "copy here" it would be the full file.

Dragging a shortcut from the desktop and used "create shortcut here" I thought this would not be the full file.

Is the full *.exe copied to the menu or is the shown window wrong? Since I am probably going to use this menu with about 150+ shortcuts, I am afraid to have a menu with several gigabyte there?

Regards,

Mike

Ufff, Mike. You're almost asking me to write the new User Guide in here, lol

To start with your last post:

Did you notice how some folders in Windows (like the My Computer and Control Panel folders) are not really physical folders in your hard drive but rather 'virtual' folders?

Well, NextSTART menus are like that. There are menus that display the contents of physical folders in your hard drives, others that display the contents of virtual Windows folders, others that display special things (like the Systray or Media menus) and others (the ones you build using the built-in Menu Editor) that simply contain 'links' to other objects, files and menus.

The Shelf, by the way, has the same kind of thing in relation to tabs. Some tabs are just like docks, and other tabs point to virtual Windows folders or even physical folders in your hard drive.

What happens when you drop a file into a menu or a Shelf tab thus depends on the type of that menu or tab.

If you drop a file into a menu or Shelf tab displaying the contents of a physical folder in your hard drive, then you are physically moving files around, i.e.; things behave exactly as if you were drag & dropping files between Explorer windows.

However, when you drop a file into a 'regular' Shelf tab or a menu you built using the Menu Editor, you are only creating 'links' (shortcuts) to files. So, when you delete something from such a menu or tab, you are not deleting the actual file, just the 'link' or 'shortcut' that exists in that menu or tab.

The delete file confirmation dialog immediately gives you a clue to what you are really deleting: if it is the normal Windows file delete dialog, then be careful, you are about to send a real file straight to the Windows Recycle bin.

However, if it is a Winstep file delete confirmation dialog (not only is the dialog visually different, it will also say something like 'remove this item from the menu/dock/shelf?') then you are simply removing a link/shortcut from the menu/dock/shelf.

Notice that even the context menu verb is different: for removing shortcuts from the dock, menu, shelf, it will use the word 'Remove'. The 'Delete' verb is reserved for deletions of actual files in physical folders in your hard drive.

Thanks for taking the time answering instead of writing the new user guide



While there is only the shortcut on the menu removed, for the menu there is no difference between "copy here" and "create shortcut here" besides the entry to the icon path because of this virtual folder. Both entries have the same behaviour and show the same context menus. The difference comes when I have a Folder Type submenu. Then copy and create shortcut make a difference.

Thank you very much for explaining it rather detailed. I am used to work my folders and files as c:\something, d:\data and such for the past two centuries, since I feel safer when doing stuff, knowings it is the physical real deal

Those virtual libraries and such never gained my trust. Total Commander is still my best friend for accessing files ever since.

Still haven't figured out the chaining of menues, http://www.winstep.net/help/ns3/nextstart.htm this only refers to it as well, but I don't see how to chain the created menues. Same goes for the hotspotgrouping and multiple menus on the same hotspot. Are those maybe disabled in the trial version?

So I am looking forward to your answer on my previous post, so I get a full grasp on the issues at hand .

That's right.

And I understand it can be a bit confusing, so I'm thinking about changing things in v11.6 so that when right-click dropping an item from Explorer into a 'regular' menu' the only option you get is 'Create Shortcut Here' (which is the only one that makes sense in that case). However, this is more complicated than it looks, since you can also drag items from Folder Type menus (which assume double roles).



No. The trial version of Winstep Xtreme is fully functional.

Chaining menus was the correct term for the old NextSTART v3 version that User Guide refers to (you could create several individual menus and then you could link/chain them together) but now things work a bit differently. To understand that you need to open the Menu Editor in NextSTART, but please make a backup copy of your NextSTART settings in the Advanced tab of NextSTART Preferences before going any further.

When you open the Menu Editor, by default you see a single entry: the main NextSTART menu. Expand that and you see that the menu is composed of individual entries and further 'expandable' entries. Those expandable entries are sub-menus.

Now, you can create more sub-menus by choosing an insertion point and then clicking the 'Insert Submenu' button. You can use a mix of drag & drop and clicks on the 'Insert Item' button to populate your newly created sub-menu.

However, you are not limited to creating sub-menus. You can also create more 'Root' menus.

For instance, click on the 'NextSTART' menu root and the 'Insert Menu' button lights up. You can now create an independent root menu 'tree', i.e.; another menu that is on the same level as the main NextSTART menu. You can later associate this 'root' menu to a hotspot.

Furthermore, in the Menu Editor you can move items around via drag & drop, and even move them into sub-menus one level deep (you must expand the sub-menus first, however). You can also copy items by holding the CTRL key while dragging.

Sub-menus also have a particular characteristic: you can move or copy them into the root of the menu list. For instance, you can click on the 'Exit' sub-menu and drag it into the 'NextSTART' entry. Press CTRL when dropping and you will have created a new 'Exit' root menu that is a copy of the 'Exit' sub-menu in then main NextSTART menu. Instead of copying, you could have moved the menu as well simply by not pressing CTRL.

So, you can 'build' your new menus this way... or you can do the same (except creating 'root' menus) via drag & drop and right click context menus in the menus themselves.

Once you're finished creating new menus, you must now associate them to a hotspot in order to use them - and this is where you now move to the Hotspots tab.

However, you seem to be under the impression that a single hotspot can open multiple menus. That is not true: a hotspot can only be associated to a single action, be it opening a menu, launching an application, or running an internal command.

The hotspot grouping has to do with a scenario similar to this: imagine you create three different hotspots, each associated to three different menus you previously created using the Menu Editor.

Now, when you click on the first hotspot, menu #1 opens. If you then click on hotspot #2, menu #2 would open but menu #1 would remain open as well. If you want menu #1 to close automatically when you click on hotspot #2, then you put all three hotspots into the same group.

Anyway, these are all advanced options. Keep it simple for now until you get more used to how NextSTART works.

Or go all out, up to you, but don't forget to backup first.

Thank you very much, Jorge!

You have done the impossible and clarified the issues I had with it

Especially the chaining menus and hotspot topic were confusing me, but you explained it very good for me to understand.

Thanks again for taking the time.

Since I am going to use NextStart, I have to buy Winstep Xtreme, correct?

Also, I have to put NextStart into my Autostart folder for the menus to show up. Is this correct?

edit: Wanted to add as a side note: I am running dual monitors set up with eyefinity as one large desktop at 3840x1080. Xtreme doesn't recognize this as "dual monitors" anymore, which is to my knowledge correct to do so, because eyefinity does group the monitors as "one".

The hotspot "bumping right screen edge" works in this setup.

However, if I change to just an "extend" dual monitor setup. where you have actual screen1 and screen2, the right edge and corners isn't recognized anymore. The right monitor is my "2nd" monitor in this setup. Left corners and edge work.

Glad I was able to help.

Yes, Winstep Xtreme is the way to go if you want NextSTART.

You don't have to put NextSTART on the Windows Startup folder, that is handled automatically by the application itself (see 'Run NextSTART at Windows startup' setting in the General tab of NextSTART Preferences).

Alright, that is now embarrassing , I so totally fiddled around with it and simply didn't see that General tab at all, till you mentioned it. Yups, works without autostart, lol.

We all have those moments, lol

Yesterday I went to the toilet of a restaurant I had never been before, lost in my thoughts, spotted the sign saying 'women' and, being a man, automatically went to the other door.

I had this instant weird feeling something was missing and not quite right there, but, the restaurant in question being one of those really nice ones, I figured maybe that's just how it was.

Of course, turns out I had gone to the toilet reserved for the 'disabled' (which is exactly how I felt after noticing that, eheh).