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 Post subject: How Many Registered Users?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:30 pm 
Jorge,

How many people have registered NextStart, WorkShelf, or FullPack?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:30 pm 
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That's previledged information. :wink:

But why are you asking?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:15 pm 
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"How many people have registered NextStart..."

"...previledged information"

In other words, "None of your damned business!" Something like that? Something I think a lot of folks wouldn't mind having a round about number to. 500,000? 500?

From the number of NS/WS themes uploaded it doesn't seem to be as popular as it once was bit I also know that there are many of us would have trouble finding our programs without it. hehe


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:21 am 
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There are thousands of registered Winstep users... but you are right as well. Stardock dominated the market and Winstep applications are not as popular as they once were (I can still say that we were the first and that the rest are copykats, hehe). NextSTART was first launched when WindowBlinds was at version 0.57 or whatever and Object Desktop was nothing but a bunch of crummy, lame, applications. Stardock, however, was lucky that WindowBlinds was a 'killer application' and had no real competition for many years. And then money generates money, as we all know.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:58 am 
Lucky? Come now, you know better than that.

WindowBlinds has always had competition. There was eFX which was around the same time. Then there was Chroma. And now WindowBlinds has to compete with what's built into the OS.

I think the key factors were effort, time, and community organization. Just constantly releasing updates month after month year after year on the Object Desktop components.

I think the biggest thing that hurt NextStart is that it went quite awhile without updates. Plus it had competition on all fronts such as Hoverdesk, Talisman, ObjectBar, Aston Shell, and of course Litestep.

It's not that those programs were better, what I think happened is that the skinning community got fragmented. The skinners who like making desktops got split up amongst a bunch of different programs and none of them were therefore able to reach critical mass after that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:59 am 
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Ah sorry that was me that wrote that (Frogboy). I thought I was logged in.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:29 am 
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Oops. Guess I must have gone a bit overboard if what I wrote dragged you in here, Brad. Sorry, I was in a lousy mood at the time. :D

Lets get one thing out of the way, first and foremost: I have all the respect in the world for you. In my opinion you are one of the best businessmen and marketing guys I have ever met. Without you Stardock would definitely not be where it is at this point.

Anyway, WindowBlinds never had any *real* competition until MS stuck its nose into skinning, as it always does when any non-MS business reaches critical mass (hope Bill doesn't come in here because I said this, btw. :D ).

Stardock as a software company started with a suite of popular Object Desktop utilities for IBM's late OS2, which IBM actually ended up shipping with the system. When IBM finally admited defeat and dropped support for OS2, Stardock found itself in a real bad financial situation. The only alternative to keep Stardock afloat was to migrate OD to Windows (and I know how much flack you got from OS2 users for this, who even called you a traitor). Unfortunately OD's impact in the Windows world was minimal, to say the least - until Neil and WindowBlinds came along. You had the foresight to see WB's importance and hired Neil on the spot. If anything saved Stardock at this point, it was WindowBlinds.

eFx development had stopped by the time WindowBlinds started getting popular - I remember because that's about when I showed up at the scene (end of 1998). eFx still had lots of problems when development stopped, so the only real alternative was WB.

Chroma showed up much later, in mid-1999, when WB was already very popular. It never catched up mainly because it only had a handfull of available skins, while WB already had hundreds. I think their skin engine was also really hard to make skins for, if I remember correctly.

The only real competition to WindowBlinds came with XP and their built-in skinning engine. Had MicroSoft at that point opened up XP's skinning format then Stardock would probably have been in real trouble, since WB was still Stardock's main cash cow - in this respect Stardock was very lucky. For the record, the main reason MS refrained from opening the skin format to third party skinners was because a bad skin could easilly crash the OS or render it innoperable - and then who do you think the users would blame? The skin or the OS?

StyleXP (and their hacking of the XP skinning engine) came later, but at this point Stardock was already big enough (and diversified) to handle that kind of competition.

Another 'lucky' milestone (and when I say lucky I don't mean that luck was the only factor involved, btw, since not everybody would recognize these lucky breaks and take advantage of them) was the dismissal of Skinz.org (which was the major skin repository at the time) and the creation of Wincustomize, which soon took it's place. Including non-Stardock applications areas in Wincustomize was very clever and instrumental in getting Wincustomize (and Stardock) where it is now. It was also a gamble, IMO, since sites like Wincustomize are real money pits in terms of bandwidth.

Anyway, WindowBlinds allowed Stardock to grow enough (i.e. have enough money) to be able to hire other developers and significantly expand the measly - in the begining - portfolio of OD applications. OD thus became a much more attractive proposition over buying the applications individually. By giving every single Stardock application 'away' with OD, you also achieved what Microsoft achieves when they ship extra software with the OS itself: even if there is something better out there, most customers will not bother looking for it (much less paying for it) since they feel that what they already have is 'good enough'.

Another stroke of genius was the 'subscription' method used in OD, of which you were indeed a pioneer. While other shareware companies offered free upgrades for life (Winstep never did, btw) and thus closed the door to repeated revenue, you ensured that money kept comming in from the existing customer base.

So, businesswise it's easy to see why I look up to you, even if I don't agree with some of the things you do.

As for Winstep, I agree with most of what you said. In part because of the amount of competition Winstep had, it was never able to reach critical mass and therefore be able to hire external developers to heavilly expand it's portfollio of applications... and NextSTART was never a 'killer' application like WindowBlinds, since it is not for everyone and appeals mostly to power users. You yourself admited that when you concluded that Stardock's ObjectBar wasn't selling nearly as much as you thought it would.

The bottom line is that Winstep is basically me... and I'm buried here in Portugal (a small country in Europe with less than 10 million inhabitants) without any real access to the stuff that could make Winstep become better well known: the US media (and we all know how it works: the more people hear about you, the more downloads you get and, the more downloads you get, the more registrations you get). I'm also basically a programmer and I know next to nothing of marketing - so I'm happy that Winstep got as far as it did, and I can only conclude that it was on the meriths of the applications themselves and not on any marketing hype. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:24 am 
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As a general statement I concur with most of what you said.

It should be pointed out what Stardock was already making a GUI skinning program when we ran into Neil (then called Window FX). Object Desktop for OS/2, after all, "skinned" the OS and that helped it become popular on OS/2. So we were working to bring that to Windows.

Object Desktop for Windows was in beta from late 1997 until December 1999. At which point the main parts were:

* WindowBlinds
* IconPackager
* ControlCenter
* Tab LaunchPad
* DriveScan
* Misc. "little" utils

I agree Object Desktop probably had impact on WinStep. For instance, Workshelf has more features than Tab LaunchPad but since for $20 or so more than WorkShelf you could have Tab LaunchPad AND the rest of Object Desktop it made it harder to choose WorkShelf. On a side note, I really think WorkShelf should lose the NextStep style config dialogs.

But yea, I think the biggest problem was competition splitting up the very limited # of skinners between Nextstart, Hoverdesk, Talisman, ObjectBar, etc.

I also think WinStep should still break up its programs into more pieces instead of trying to make NextStart bigger and bigger.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:05 pm 
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Frogboy wrote:
I also think WinStep should still break up its programs into more pieces instead of trying to make NextStart bigger and bigger.



AMEN! There's about 3 programs worth of features in NS that I, personally, would turn into separate Apps. That's lost revenue, imo.

...and even though you're only one person -now- , Jorge, you've been putting the effort of those 3 or 4 programs worth of features all that time but stuffing it all into NS instead of packaging and "boxing it up" into separate sellable Applets.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:36 pm 
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jtfolden wrote:
Frogboy wrote:
I also think WinStep should still break up its programs into more pieces instead of trying to make NextStart bigger and bigger.



AMEN! There's about 3 programs worth of features in NS that I, personally, would turn into separate Apps. That's lost revenue, imo.

...and even though you're only one person -now- , Jorge, you've been putting the effort of those 3 or 4 programs worth of features all that time but stuffing it all into NS instead of packaging and "boxing it up" into separate sellable Applets.


Yes i would agree have each component available for purchase as standalone apps, however just like Object Desktop have a discounted package or at least a discount for buying multiple apps.

Two pluses that sold me on Winstep over Object Desktop.

1. Winstep continues to use far less system resources. WindowBlinds alone uses more resources than the entire Winstep Suite.
2. Far less time to install.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:25 pm 
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I came over here from OD, because I had the feeling that SD lost the eye for the customer.

Sure the have support, But as a user starting Object Desktop back in the days running XP.
Moved to Vista 64x bit and noticed stuff not working, Object Dock Plus a thing that I did love, The I did read about OD+ 2.0,

What can I say Fences was in beta last year, the stardock site sad Comming Soon: Fences / Object Dock 2.0

Fences is up for a other round, and peeps are still waiting for od 2.0.

From what I can tell about Winstep, It looks good, it feels real good.

Now I only have to learn how to work with it, and do some skinning ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:47 pm 
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The Fences developer (Jeff) is the same guy who makes ObjectDock. The way I see it, Stardock is spreading Jeff too thin.

It also seems that Stardock (or, more to the point, Brad Wardell) is now much more focused on games than desktop customization software.

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