Winstep

Software Technologies


 Winstep Forums


Print view
Board index : Winstep Forums : General Discussion  [ 16 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:42 pm
Posts: 1
I have attempted to use many of your competitors' similar products with little success. This is by far the best of the rest.

However, I rarely use Windows. Is there any chance of a cross-platform version to use on Linux and Mac? Without any knowledge of the source code it appears from the look-and-feel that this application is derived from .NET framework. I could be wrong on that, but if so - that of course is not compatible with other platforms - not transportable.

On Linux for instance there are several products like Nexus, most notable is Dockey. It lacks the versatility and flexibility of Nexus. It is written in Mono and has some issues but is quite stable otherwise.

I would like to see an Open Source version for Linux and Mac using a cross-platform framework like wxWidgets or Qt and GNU g++. . .

That is if your development team is interested in entering the Open Source arena or including Linux and Mac users.

I also see some suggestions to use .png or other formats for images. If it matters, I would suggest using .svg scalable images instead. They look great at any scale and are cross-platform compatible (even between older versions of Windows and the newer mobile platforms, all the way to Linux and Mac).


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:47 pm
Posts: 914
I rarely ever speak for someone else, but in this case I will since I'm not sure if the developer will at the moment.

There is no dev team. He (Jorge) did it all by himself as far as I know. As far as making it open source, I highly doubt that he will do that.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:57 pm
Posts: 898
Location: Athens, Greece
Actually, it's not based on .NET at all. I'm not sure if Jorge would mind me telling, but it's all being written on VB but not .net.

What you're suggesting, I can tell you now, is not going to happen. Period.
Apart from the sheer effort of effectively rewriting the entire programme in C++ or g++ or something, Jorge would need to have significant portions of the code written separately for Windows, OS X and Linux -- perhaps even different for KDE, Gnome and Unity.
And all that effort, so that he can... start giving it away for free?
[not to mention that, for Linux, he'd have to ALSO start giving away the entire codebase for free]

Yeap, not going to happen.
Ever.

_________________
Live long and prosper...


Back to top
 Profile WWWYIMICQ 
 
 Post subject: Re: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 29
Was Winstep created in VB? and if not VB.net then specifically VB6?

If so then I am impressed.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:44 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:30 pm
Posts: 11930
VB5 + heavy use of the Windows API lol

In retrospect I should have used C++, but back in 1998 Classic VB was still the most widely used programming language ever, and nobody suspected Microsoft would soon kill it so it could be replaced with that .NET bloatware.

By the time it became evident C++ should have been used instead, it was too late: too much code had already been written in VB and porting it to C++ would take too long (as well as introduce a ton of bugs, of course).

Anyway, VB does the job nicely, as you can see. :)

_________________
Jorge Coelho
Winstep Xtreme - Xtreme Power!
http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 29
VB5 - I am MOST impressed. I am a VB6 developer but I never created anything as slick as Winstep Xtreme. To make those lovely non-square programs with a transparent background, you must be pulling hard at the Windows API. I don't remember that functionality being available in VB6 let alone VB5.

My main VB6 program was this one:

Image

Which you can see here:

http://yereverluvinuncleber.deviantart.com/art/War-of-the-Worlds-PC-game-Companion-515582964

It was not a particularly clever program, just manipulating the registry and doing some other tricks to allow Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds PC game. I was a mere hacker/scripter of useful apps rather than a monolithic VB programmer. As you can see my skills were in the graphics department more than in pure programming.

Assuming you have a XP development environment and various test O/Ses too? The usability of VB on future versions of the Windows O/S must be uppermost in your mind? In that vein I wrote this:

http://lightquick.co.uk/still-looking-for-a-replacement-for-vb6.html?Itemid=252

ReactOS is a possible stable platform for your program in the future. If it ever becomes stable and usable. It could certainly become a development environment. Keep watching that space. https://www.reactos.org/

Bl@@dy Microsoft and the failure to create a decent alternative to traditional VB. You must always be considering a re-write in C++? A huge mindset change to abandon your whole codebase when VB codes so well and the result is better than that most other programmers achieve in .net. So much to research and relearn.

Perhaps this is the time to lever some C++ help from another developer (back to my other post re: Xwidgets)?

If I could help I would but my knowledge of C++ is practically the minimum required to do this or that. If you ever want a steampunk skin/icon set contact me. I am looking for a partner in crime to use my graphical skills.

PS. QT might be a better direction if you ever decided to do a step by step re-write. Multi-platform, a better direction than C++ I feel. Worthwhile pursuing. Keep in touch if you do.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:34 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:30 pm
Posts: 11930
yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
To make those lovely non-square programs with a transparent background, you must be pulling hard at the Windows API. I don't remember that functionality being available in VB6 let alone VB5.


I would say 90% of the grunt work is done via the Windows API. As such, using Classic VB or C++ is about the same.

yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
My main VB6 program was this one:


Nice!! :)

yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
Assuming you have a XP development environment and various test O/Ses too?


Actually my main development machine is a Windows 7 system.

I do have several VM's hosting XP and Windows 10, plus a secondary Windows 10 physical PC (in retrospect it was dumb of me to upgrade it from Windows 8.x to Windows 10, since now I don't have a Windows 8 VM/PC to test stuff here).

yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
The usability of VB on future versions of the Windows O/S must be uppermost in your mind?


At first, when MS made their move to .NET, I was very worried, but then I noticed that far too many applications (including many high-end business ones) coded in classic VB are still heavily in use, which kind of guarantees MS will be forced to support VB for many years to come (I'm sure against their wishes!).

yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
You must always be considering a re-write in C++?


Even before MS came up with .NET. The problem is that I am committed to VB.

The story of Netscape is also always at the back of my mind as a very good example of what not to do: one day they decided to re-code their browser from scratch.

It took them such a long time that, by the time they had something to show for their efforts, Netscape was no longer relevant. Worse, while the previous version was the result of years of bug fixing so it was pretty stable, the new one was largely untested and therefore riddled with infuriating bugs.

And that is how Netscape faded into obscurity.

yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
Perhaps this is the time to lever some C++ help from another developer (back to my other post re: Xwidgets)?


Oh, having programmed for many years in Assembly Z80 language (and other more higher level programming languages), I don't think of myself solely as a VB programmer. I'm well at ease with C++, although I would still have a lot to learn. It just doesn't scare me.

The problem of learning a new language, if you're already a programmer, is not so much the language itself, that's the easy part. It's getting to know the nooks and crannies of the new language, and building a decent library of commonly used functions, that takes time (I estimate about a year or so to become really proficient with it).

Anyway, I actually getting pretty close to start doing a lot of stuff in C++ from now on. Microsoft's new direction with the API make it very difficult to access the new features directly from VB.

yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
If you ever want a steampunk skin/icon set contact me. I am looking for a partner in crime to use my graphical skills.


Do you only do steampunk stuff? You're very talented, it would be a shame to limit yourself to that. :)

yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
PS. QT might be a better direction if you ever decided to do a step by step re-write. Multi-platform, a better direction than C++ I feel.


I don't agree with that one, sorry. C++ is universal. Most of Windows is coded in C++, after all. :)

_________________
Jorge Coelho
Winstep Xtreme - Xtreme Power!
http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 29
winstep wrote:

Do you only do steampunk stuff? You're very talented, it would be a shame to limit yourself to that. :)


I do restrict myself to steampunk as that is a niche that I am happy to fill. Graphics designers are two-a-penny and you need to be recognised as having a 'niche' in order to gain a reputation. At least that is my thinking.
I have a reputation but only in a small sense. I need it to grow and my feeling is that my skills in this small field could be improved further. I have already made some forays into 3D and I intend to push further in this direction.

In any case, keeping my graphics design within one genre is the same as you restricting your programming to VB5, in that I have a library of tools, brushes, images and elements that I use to create my things. I can knock up a design in very short order and then widgetise the thing onto my desktop minutes after the design is done. Photoshop is an amazing IDE for RAD program development - as the layers and groups become objects in my program. Just as you, I would struggle without the environment and my library of graphics.

winstep wrote:
PS. QT might be a better direction if you ever decided to do a step by step re-write. Multi-platform, a better direction than C++ I feel.

I don't agree with that one, sorry. C++ is universal. Most of Windows is coded in C++, after all. :)


I meant this in the context of the original post "Any chance of a cross-platform version?" - QT being very cross platform. One of my widgets is for Kubuntu KDE desktop and it could lend itself being ported to other platforms.

Image

Have a look at the video, it will probably tickle your fancy:



Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:15 am
Posts: 41
I guess, sadly, the possibility of this is remote. With the increasing intrusiveness of new versions of windows, imo Win10 being surveillance malware, Win7 will the the last windows I ever use. Once I am forced to abandon it I will move to Linux. I will REALLY miss Winstep Nexus. I have investigated docks for Linux and find them all kinda pathetic compared to what I have become used to with Extreme.

Really the future for people who are aware of how intrusive OSes are becoming is Linux. Jorge, what is your view on people abandoning Windows for Linus distros?


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:18 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:30 pm
Posts: 11930
yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
PS. We can't embed videos here, or I would have done so.


Actually, you can, there is a 'Youtube' button at the top when you are making a post. Hope you don't mind me editing your message.

Yellow wrote:
Jorge, what is your view on people abandoning Windows for Linus distros?


Oh boy, now you did it lol

My view on this is that the Microsoft of today cannot be trusted with *anything*. They're gone rogue and will stop at nothing until they are hit by a class action suite or again taken to court by the DOJ, as it happened before with the U.S. antitrust law case.

There used to be an 'old school' (i.e.; Raymond Chen and others) which were far more ethical and concerned about backwards compatibility than the suites currently in charge of Microsoft's direction. From what I have been reading, the ambient in Microsoft these days is poisonous, the company is filled with yes-men and a corporate cut-throat environment.

Personally I started noticing these signs when Microsoft decided to kill Classic VB, at the time 'just' the more popular programming languages *ever*, and replace it with that .NET abomination. They could have developed both projects at the same time and wait for the best one to win, or for VB.NET to be adopted as the new standard (if ever), but by doing it that way they clearly showed they couldn't care less about the countless companies and people who depended on Microsoft and classic VB for their livelihood.

Billions of collective men hours of classic VB expert knowledge painfully acquired over the years were thrown out of the window just like that.

Following that they really started breaking away with the past/backwards compatibility. Vista was an example, it broke so many applications that Windows 7 only became a success because it was a very attractive OS (eye candy does sell, and at least there they finally did something right) and because in the mean time developers had had time to adapt to the new standards and re-code existing applications.

By then Microsoft was all over the place, pushing and evangelizing new technologies (remember Silverlight?) and abandoning them almost as fast as they had come up with those ideas. Wow to the developers who believed Microsoft hype and invested their time and money on those new technologies!

Then Windows 8 came and with it a whole new direction, and back to the ugly OS we are.

The Microsoft of today reminds me of an headless chicken, running all over the place with no clear or definite goal. Worse, they are obviously turning evil in the real sense of the word.

Windows 8 was their attempt to turn Windows into a walled garden. Their goal was to kill classic Windows and replace it with another abomination: Windows RT and Metro Apps.

Turning Windows into a closed OS would allow Microsoft to have absolute control over what runs in it and what not. No software would run on the new Windows except with Microsoft's blessing, and the only way to get that 'blessing' would be to sell your software through the official Microsoft store. 30% of the sale price going to Microsoft, of course.

Windows 8 massive rejection by users was a kick to the gonads as far as that plan was concerned.

So Microsoft now wants to sell Windows as a service, which is why they are 'giving' Windows 10 away and claiming it is the last Windows version ever. Their final goal is to 'rent' Windows, so it is no longer 'yours' when you buy it.

Software rental is a business model like any other, and it would be fine (i.e.; the market would vote with its feet or not; people would either adopt it or not) if Windows was an application like any other. But it isn't, it's an OS. You depend on it to run OTHER applications.

So, if times go bad and you fail to pay your monthly rent to Microsoft, what do you think will happen if Microsoft has its way? You lose access to Windows *and* with it to all the other applications which you paid good money to own and have the right to run.

Some people seem to think Microsoft would not go that far. Think again. They are already showing their true colors by the way they are shoving Windows 10 down everybody's throats. There should be a clear and simple way of opting-out of upgrading to 10, but there isn't, and only tech savvy people know how to do that.

Microsoft is now openly collecting information on your PC and they lost all shame about it. Again, there is no clear and simple way to turn that off... in fact, you can't, not totally. Those connections even by-pass the Hosts file.

They say it's telemetry but, since the information being transmitted to MS headquarters is encrypted, the only way to know exactly what is being transmitted is by trusting what Microsoft tells you. And they already proved they cannot be trusted.

Then the ads in your Windows 10 Start Menu started, 'suggesting' specific Apps. Microsoft, evidently, does not call them adverts, but that is what they really are.

Finally, you only need to look at what happened just now with Microsoft's OneDrive service to see how Microsoft doesn't care anymore about how they are perceived: they hiked the prices and lowered the limits by *80%* in some cases. They sold the service as one thing and then unilaterally changed the terms of that same service to something outrageous by comparison.

Their excuse was that some users were abusing the system and hosting over 75 TB of data on it, but come on, disregarding the fact that Microsoft actually sold the service as 'unlimited data storage', all they had to do to solve that problem was to kick out the users abusing the system.

This proves Microsoft will do *anything* they want, and damn the public opinion or how much pain it brings to others, as long as it thinks it can get away with it. I think the suites running Microsoft are convinced the company is too big to fail (does that remind you of a certain financial crisis and why it happened?)

So, what do I think of people abandoning Windows in favor of Linux? I think they are doing the logical (and unfortunately only) thing to do at this point. And it pains me and angers me to see Microsoft doing these things, a feeling that I am certain is shared by many of Microsoft's own employees.

_________________
Jorge Coelho
Winstep Xtreme - Xtreme Power!
http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:15 am
Posts: 41
Lol, yeah, I figured you'd agree. It is really astounding how Microsoft is being so blatant about all the lying and underhandedness.

If anybody is stupid enough these days to leave automatic updates on, they will wake up one morning to find Windows 10 on their systems without their agreement or permission. The hardware that they own will have been invaded and violated and Microsoft will defend their actions as normal, good business and good for you (!?!??!?) They have then said that if you don't like Win 10 they have 31 days to revert to your old OS. I don't believe for a second that that reversion process will be flawless and bug free. I bet if anybody tries this they will end up with massive problems making it difficult to return their systems to normal. Forcing them to give up and give in to Win 10.

They are just copying the behavior of Apple with their products where you really can only 'rent' your devices or computers, as they constantly monitor everything that you do, use and install. Even to the point where if you 'buy' and app from their store, then they decide they no longer want that app to be available, they don't just remove it for sale, but take it of your device as well!!

The time of the people deciding how they want to use their computers is rapidly ending (unless they start using Linux)Apple, Microsoft and Google OSs will serve you ads based on what you type or say or what you buy at their stores. And what will happen to that keylogger or audio data that they covertly steal from you? (Even if it is spelled out in an EULA it is STILL theft) It will likely one day be used against you in some way that you don't expect, just like grocery store rewards card data is now being used by doctors to deny people treatment based on their grocery buying history.

There will be no similar litigation that happened with Microsoft years ago. That was launched by Netscape and other browser makers against Microsoft because they had an unfair advantage due to their including IE in their OSs. Microsoft is actually late to the game in this behavior as Apple and Google have been doing it already forever. It is now just blindly accepted by everybody as "normal" business practices where every move that is made is all about every greater surveillance and control over your behavior. Some Apple fans are so brainwashed as to think this is all a good thing for them.!!

The biggest commodity these days is not sales of their code, but amassing people's data that they can monetize in ever more creative ways,(why do you think everybody and their dog is putting up and wants you to use their clouds?) that is why most apps now are developed with this surveillance as a primary goal, while offering you some stupidity that you don't need that they use good marketing or addiction to convince you that you do.

My prediction.. Apps will get dumber, simpler all with the stated purpose of making it easier to use or more intuitive. Interfaces will become so simplistic that any useful functionality will not be possible, or not be allowed. Social engineering will be used to TELL people what kinds of uses of their devices is allowed or needed.

I could go on for days. But Linux is not immune to this either. A while back there was an uproar when it was discovered that Ubuntu had started indexing your drives and phoning that data home to their servers to serve you ads. Luckily there are other distros. But to most corporations who are becoming more and more parasitical every day, the commodification of your life knows no bounds. I would love to see a law enacted that all data generated by people, in any action in their life, remains their property and usage of that data must be negotiated with each individual for a price they deem worthy. Use without knowledge or permission is theft and will be compensated for at 100 times the average market rate that must be paid out by the members of the boards of directors of said companies. $1,000 per character would be a good start for my data useage.

*rant off* :lol:


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 29
There is, or maybe there will be: ReactOS. If we can get more people to back it and develop for it then it could be a useful platfrom. Seeking Win NT5 compatibility it would be my platform of choice if I could get 'my' software to work on it. Still in Alpha 0.3.17, the daily updates show that change is happening and the Epic wins! thread on the forum shows how much software works on the dauily builds (don't try 0.3.17 as it is out-of-date). Version 0.4.0 is on the way and should mark the transition from alpha to beta, at least that is the hope.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 29
FYI - ReactOS arrived at 0.4.0 (alpha) today. GDI and multiple windowing is still in its infancy so don't expect a lot but it might be worth trying xtreme on ReactOS if only to find out how much it is broken.

Still keeping an eye on ReactOS as an alternative to Windows. One day it will happen.

https://www.reactos.org/


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Any chance of a cross-platform version?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:02 am
Posts: 119
Location: Seattle, WA
And now with Apple fighting the FBI on their issue, I am almost at my wits end. Considering ditching the mobile phone and cloud accounts going back to Landline and backing everything up locally, which I do already anyway but making it proprietary.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: ReactOS 0.4.4
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 29
Sorry for resurrecting an old post.

ReactOS 0.4.4 has just been released. I doubt that winstep extreme will run on it, at least not now but ReactOS is certainly a lot more stable than it was and many programs are now actually operating...

For a similar example the xwidget graphical widget engine installs and runs but does not update graphically (f5 refreshes it) and it has problems with transparency as you see from the black background.

Image

I'd suggest the same running/transparency problems would happen for winstep xtreme.

Just a heads-up that within the next few versions of Reactos it might be a good idea for someone to try winstep extreme. There is a potential future for it there eventually.

The forum entry describing the issue is here:

https://www.reactos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16043


Back to top
 Profile  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic Board index : Winstep Forums : General Discussion  [ 16 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 54 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron