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 Post subject: Access Violation Error after today's Windows updates?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:41 pm 
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EDIT: THIS IS CAUSED BY A FAULTY MICROSOFT PATCH!

All docks that use GDI+ (Nexus, RocketDock, ObjectDock, etc...) crash with this faulty Windows update on your system.

Microsoft has already acknowledged the faulty patch and is currently rolling out a new update that fixes this problem.

Running Windows Update again or removing KB3097877 solves the crashes. To remove KB3097877 go to Control Panel -> Windows Update -> Update History -> Installed updates. Search for update KB3097877 in the Windows Security Section and uninstall it.

Reboot and the crashes should be gone.


I woke up to emails from three different users stating that their Winstep applications had started (apparently randomly?) crashing with Access Violation errors.

According to one of the users, this only started happening after today's batch of Windows Updates.

I installed the same Windows updates and so far I have been unable to reproduce the crashes. This means it's probably a machine or configuration specific issue, which, being true, will make diagnosing the issue very difficult.

In order to fix an issue, we must first understand what is causing it. To do that it is usually crucial that the issue can be reproduced here. Sometimes the problem is universal and can be easily reproduced, leading to straightforward fixes, but other times it will only happen under a very specific combination of hardware/software/configuration settings.

The latter type of issues are hell-on-earth to diagnose, because they are usually caused by an *apparently* unrelated piece of hardware or software.

For instance, some years ago some users reported Winstep Xtreme crashing whenever it tried to display the contents of the Windows Control Panel. Not only was this problem affecting only some users, with others never suffering from this problem, as I could find nothing wrong with the code after looking at it - over and over - until I was blue in the face.

After a very difficult period I was finally able to find a pattern, the thing common to all of them: everyone afflicted by this problem had Logitech web cams installed on their systems.

I ended up having to buy a Logitech Web Cam myself to figure out and fix this problem which turned out to be a buggy Logitech Control Panel applet corrupting the stack whenever an application enumerated the items in the Windows Control Panel. Even though this affected *all* third party applications that tried to show the contents of the Windows Control Panel (I know because I tested several of them) it did not affect Windows Explorer itself - thus the bug remained unfixed by Logitech for a very long time.

Even though the code itself in Winstep applications was flawless and not to blame, it was the Winstep application that crashed, so the application itself evidently got the blame for it. With Logitech hardware being so popular I ended up solving the problem by coding a work-around for this issue.

But the point is: I was only able to do this once I found the pattern and understood what was happening.

A similar problem happened with hybrid Intel/nVidia video card systems (usually laptops), which, among other symptoms, caused Winstep applications to be unable to connect to the Internet. The issue was only fixed once it was established that all users afflicted by this problem were running systems with combo graphic drivers.

Another issue that I remember being difficult to diagnose had to do with a very specific configuration problem: a huge memory leak that would only occur if the user had one or more items in the dock with *both* a blank filename and a blank icon path. This resulted in the Question Mark icon being displayed for those items (and why would users leave items on their docks with an ugly question mark icon? But some did) and also in the memory leak.

To identify that one I had to write code that would pop up a red warning dialog panel whenever memory usage reached unacceptable levels, urging the users to contact Winstep support. Only this way was I able to get enough testimonials to figure out the common pattern.

And, you see, that is another problem: whenever facing an issue, only a very small minority of users will contact Winstep support. They either assume we are already aware of the problem, that the application is normally buggy and we simply don't care, or that they will get no response (so they don't bother). And thus some of these rare issues can remain undetected and/or unfixed for a very long time.

For instance, I'm aware that Nexus maxes out one of the CPU cores on some systems (hopefully very few) even when idle (symptom is constant 25% CPU usage on a four core system, or constant 12% CPU usage on an 8 core system), resulting in system slow-downs. The system doesn't grind to an halt simply because it has other CPU cores, but it would actually be better if it did, as like this some users either don't notice or assume that Nexus is a CPU hog and end up silently uninstalling it from their systems.

I was only able to exchange information with a user suffering from this problem *once*, but unfortunately (for me, of course, not for him) he ended up 'solving' the issue himself by upgrading to Windows 10 before I could establish what was causing this.

I have no idea how many other users are affected, but given the wording in some of the Uninstall Surveys, I suspect a few. At this point I also have no idea what could cause a Winstep application to constantly max out the CPU even when idle.

Anyway, I wrote all this for users to understand that bug-fixing is not a linear thing. Sometimes the only way to solve an issue is to get a bunch of users suffering from it together to see if, together, we can establish the one thing that is common to all of them.

That is why I am inviting the users who wrote to Winstep support today regarding the Access Violation errors to post their experiences in this thread. If you too are seeing this issue (or the issue I described above of Nexus maxing out one of the CPU cores) please say something here too.

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Jorge Coelho
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 Post subject: Re: Access Violation Error after today's Window updates?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:00 pm 
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I'm getting more reports of users suffering from this issue via the Uninstall Survey. Unfortunately very few of them leave an email address so they can be contacted.

Since apparently this only started happening today, I think it is safe to assume it is somehow related to today's Windows Updates.

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 Post subject: Re: Access Violation Error after today's Window updates?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:05 pm 
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Location: Vadnais Heights, Minnesota
Jorge,

I'm getting the error when trying to delete an item from the dock.

Attachment:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG [ 23.74 KiB | Viewed 84256 times ]


Thanks,
Grouch

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 Post subject: Re: Access Violation Error after today's Window updates?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:10 pm 
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Any type of item (i.e.; Internal Commands, modules, shortcuts to applications, etc...)? Did you try it with different items?

Also, how are you trying to delete the item? By dragging it to the Recycle Bin module or via the right click context menu? If the latter, does it crash too if you drag it to the Recycle Bin module?

What about the Shelf?

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 Post subject: Re: Access Violation Error after today's Window updates?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:29 pm 
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Confirmed it has something to do with the new Windows updates, more reports coming in. This even affects versions as older as v12.2.

I've sent an email to all those who reported the crashes on the Uninstall Surveys with an email address, asking them to post here. Hopefully some of them will respond.

EDIT (1): THIS IS CAUSED BY A FAULTY MICROSOFT PATCH!

Outlook users are also experiencing crashes since the November 11th Windows Update.

Microsoft confirmed it's conducting an "immediate review" into one faulty patch. Apparently the blame lies with the KB3097877 update. Removing KB3097877 seems to solve the crashes.

I'm sure more reports of other applications crashing left and right will start coming in soon. EDIT(3): And so they did. The rogue update also causes log in issues, breaks Windows Gadgets and kills the Asus Audio Center. Stardock's ObjectDock also crashes at startup. And those are just the ones we know about so far.

EDIT(2): More information HERE on Reddit and HERE on Microsoft's own forums.

The funny thing is that I am unable to reproduce the crashes here in ANY of the office computers. Perhaps Microsoft had already redrawn the faulty patch by the time I updated my machines (I have them all set to let me review any Windows updates before installing due to how aggressively Microsoft is trying to shove Windows 10 down everybody's throats).

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 Post subject: Re: Access Violation Error after today's Window updates?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:39 am 
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Jorge,
Confirmed! I backed out KB3097877 and tried again. All is well. It's definitely another botched patch from Microsoft. I'll watch for a re-issue of the patch and try it again.

Thanks,
Grouch

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 Post subject: Re: Access Violation Error after today's Windows updates?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:17 pm 
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This is a blatant MeToo Post.
I have discovered this problem with Microsoft updates yesterday (11 Nov 15). I rolled back my computer from a backup, and today installed MSft updates one at a time, and can confirm that KB3097877 does indeed crash Winstep Nexus Ultimate on my Win 7 machine.
I can supply system info if requested.
Cheers,

Bob
grmain-at-gmail-dot-com
Remove the obvious to reply.


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 Post subject: Re: Access Violation Error after today's Windows updates?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:21 pm 
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Thanks, not necessary.

Microsoft in the mean time have re-issued a fixed KB3097877. 'Only' took them 36 hours to solve the problem, and, in all that time, the faulty KB3097877 remained available in Windows Update.

Idiots.

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 Post subject: Re: Access Violation Error after today's Windows updates?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:07 pm 
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Jorge,
Confirmed. The re-issue of KB3097877 plays nice with others. I was able to remove an item from the dock without crashing "Nexus Ultimate".

Thanks,
Grouch

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 Post subject: Re: Access Violation Error after today's Windows updates?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:26 pm 
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Thanks for the follow-up, Grouch.

The faulty Windows update affected all docks that use GDI+ (which is all of them, I think?), Nexus, ObjectDock and RocketDock included. There's a strangely satisfying feeling in not being alone.

I could be wrong, but I think the security 'fix' is related to how Fonts are handled by GDI+. The same type of 'protection' that caused the Winstep Xtreme service to hang on the preview builds of Windows 10 before I worked around it.

I'm still getting reports of Nexus crashing through the Uninstall Survey, and I guess the fallout will last until Microsoft's replacement for the faulty patch propagates all over Windows Update.

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 Post subject: Re: Access Violation Error after today's Windows updates?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:28 am 
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Ok, I think we can finally put this issue to rest.

In the aftermath I was sad to see how quick some people were to uninstall the software without so much as reaching out to support. Some of them even admitted that they had been using Nexus for years without trouble, but still, 'thanks for all the fish, bye!'.

One even accused me of making the free version of Nexus crash on purpose so people would be forced to upgrade to the paid version and then proceeded to call me every name under the sun. Man. You have to have a thick skin to read some of those uninstall surveys lol

On a normal day, most surveys are sent by Brazilians and South American Spanish speaking users (I think Nexus is really popular in South America).

What I find amusing is the general 'macho' attitude from most of them: the Brazilians are usually like 'I'm uninstalling because I can/wan't to/none of your business' (so why bother filling the survey in the first place? lol) and the Spanish Latin American guys like to insult everything, from the software to my mother. I am, of course, generalizing, but that's the way it really is. :)

English speaking users generally either don't say anything or provide some useful feedback.

Some users also complain about the themes, not realizing that Nexus is compatible with every single dock theme they can find on the web (so they have thousands and thousands of different skins to chose from, surely they will find a couple they might like, no? :) ), others are still using very, very, old versions and complain about it not being compatible with Windows 10. I mean... sure, you're using a version that was released 4 years BEFORE Windows 10 came out, what do you expect?! Nexus comes with an Update Manager, at the very least, use it before pointing the finger! lol

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 Post subject: Re: Access Violation Error after today's Windows updates?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:46 am 
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Jorge, you can't fix stupid. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Access Violation Error after today's Windows updates?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:08 pm 
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Resurrecting an old topic. I just upgraded to windows 10 pro from windows 7.
I was getting the error every time i right clicked an icon (program shortcuts, not folder or internal commands).
Reinstalled version 16.2. not as many crashes but right click is very slow for context menu to appear (again program shortcuts). Ill try reinstalling 16.6 after couple of days.

Also, Unless Winstep is elevated, Task Manager internal command doesn't work, and run command only works if explorer process is running (while task manager and elevated winstep can start a run command even if explorer isn't running)

Ill update the post after i reupdate to 16.6


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 Post subject: Re: Access Violation Error after today's Windows updates?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:05 pm 
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Two unrelated issues here:

seeker wrote:
I was getting the error every time i right clicked an icon (program shortcuts, not folder or internal commands).


This is typical (and whenever something like this was reported it ALWAYS turned out to be the case) of a buggy/bad right-click 3rd party shell extension.

Shell extensions add non-Windows native commands to the right-click context shell menu. Badly coded extensions can make other applications that use this menu crash through no fault of their own (Explorer itself doesn't crash because it is 'protected', otherwise it would crash too).

Unfortunately you can only figure out which one is causing the problem on your system by trial and error.

Alternatively, disable full right click context menus (Preferences -> General -> More Options -> Change 'Show full right-click context menu options' from 'Always' to 'Never'.

seeker wrote:
Also, Unless Winstep is elevated, Task Manager internal command doesn't work, and run command only works if explorer process is running (while task manager and elevated winstep can start a run command even if explorer isn't running)


You should NEVER run Winstep applications elevated (in fact, you get a warning at startup if you try to do so).

Besides being a HUGE security risk (anything launched by an elevated application also runs elevated, so it can potentially p0wn your entire system) you are also unable to drag & drop items from Explorer windows into the Winstep applications because of the Windows UIPI (User Interface Privilege Isolation) feature.

Given what you wrote above, you also seem NOT to be running Explorer as the shell. Winstep Xtreme is designed as a shell extension, NOT a shell replacement. As such, many functions will not work properly if Explorer is not running.

As for the failure to launch the Windows Task Manager via an IC (Internal Command) under Windows 10, I just tried it here and it seems you're right. Microsoft must have changed something (again! Sigh).

While you wait for the fix you can always create a normal shortcut on the dock that points to the Task Manager executable and use that instead.

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