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 Post subject: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:05 am 
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Posts: 35
Hello,
I have 2 monitors and Workshelf is configured to be located at bottom edge of screen on 1st monitor. Whenever I edit Workshelf preferences or properties and either click OK or Apply button, the following two things happen.
1. Workshelf is automatically moved to bottom edge of screen of 2nd monitor
2. Windows explorer becomes unresponsive

The only way to recover from this issue is to restart my PC. Can someone tell me what is the issue, why this is happening and how to fix this issue permanently. This is frustrating because any time I make a change I have to restart my PC and I lose time when this issue happens. As a result, I have refrained from customizing the shelf, but it defeats the whole purpose of using workshelf.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:06 am 
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At the top of my head, are you running Windows 10 and do the monitors have different screen DPIs?

Winstep applications are system high-DPI compatible (same DPI settings for all monitors), but they are not per-monitor DPI compatible, a feature that is new to Windows 10. Very few applications are.

This could explain the Shelf moving (because Windows is literally LYING to the Winstep application about screen resolutions, etc), but not Explorer freezing.

First time I have ever heard of anything like that, in fact.

Also, what version of Winstep Xtreme are you running?

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Jorge Coelho
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http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies


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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:02 am 
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I am running Windows 10, 64-bit. I am running WinStep 18.10. So, how do I prevent the shelf from being shifted to 2nd monitor when I change/apply preferences?

The windows explorer issue is real. After I click on Apply button on preferences tab, shelf moves to 2nd monitor and windows explorer becomes unresponsive.

However, the shelf starts without any issues and is displayed on 1st monitor when I logon to computer. It's just when I apply preferences, this issue happens.


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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:15 am 
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venkum wrote:
I am running Windows 10, 64-bit. I am running WinStep 18.10. So, how do I prevent the shelf from being shifted to 2nd monitor when I change/apply preferences?


You still haven't told me if you are using different DPI settings for each of your monitors. You know what I am talking about, right? MS also calls it 'text size'.

Want to make sure we're not chasing the wrong thing.

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Jorge Coelho
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http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies


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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:34 pm 
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I'm not sure exactly how to find DPI setting or text size for each monitor, but here is the information I found in display settings in system properties.

monitor 1: desktop resolution - 1600 x 900 (Recommended. Text size: 100% (Recommended)
monitor 2: desktop resolution - 1920 x 1080 (Recommended). Text size: 100% (Recommended)


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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:22 pm 
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Well, in this case I sincerely have no explanation to what is happening - that is definitely not normal behavior.

My guess would be a 3rd party application interfering with Winstep Xtreme? Are you running any other software that is multi-monitor related, etc?

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Jorge Coelho
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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:20 pm
Posts: 61
I'm having the same problem. I have 5 monitors set up as follows:

325
41

Screens 1 through 4 are 22 inch displays with a 1680x1050 resolution. Screen 5 is a 24 inch display with a 1920x1200 resolution.

Screen #1 was the main display, and this caused my compiler in screen 2 to act weird. Whenever I detached a window from it, it would jump down to either screen 4 or 1 and refuse to be pulled up to either 3, 2, or 5. So I decided to make screen 3 the main display. This caused the compiler to allow detached windows in 3, 2, and 5, but WinStep now had my Nexus and Workshelf in the wrong windows.

First let me say that it's impossible to tell which monitor is which in WinStep. They don't follow the Windows numbering scheme, nor do they follow a standard

123
45

scheme. The best I can gather from monitor types and where stuff is now is that Winstep thinks the arrangement is

134
25

except the shelf said it's docked in #1 but in reality it popped up in #4 (WinStep numbering).

I tried to move the shelf to 3 (thinking it was 5) and it crashed. Explorer also crashed but I didn't know (or care) since I use XYplorer and it kept running fine. Moving Nexus from 5 to 2 worked, and then attempting to move the shelf from 4 to 5 caused the Nexus to flash twice and the shelf to stay at 4 but the preferences think it's in 1. Also, setting the drop-down box to 2 but not selecting Apply or OK will crash the shelf.

Attempting to restart a crashed program causes it to take a very long time to restart or not restart at all.

I don't have any programs that are specifically multimonitor, but I do run some programs over multiple monitors (although they probably don't know they are being run like that).

I don't know if you can get any info out of all that, but I figured I'd post it anyway in case it was helpful.

I'm going to reboot and see if anything clears up. It may be a Windows thing.

To Venkum: Ctrl-Alt-Del, bring up the task manager, kill Explorer, then use the File menu to open the run box to start Explorer again. It's a lot faster than rebooting.

Edit: Rebooting caused everything to load but the shelf, previously thinking it was at #1 but really at #4, still thought it was at #1 but was now in #2. I tried setting it to 5 but it did the flash Nexus thing and refused to go. I then tried floating it and I can move it to any monitor, but if I move it to 3 and 5, it will snap to one of the monitors it likes (1, 2, or 4).

I just tried to move it to 5 but in the top part of the window and it stayed. I then moved it to the bottom part and it stayed. I then docked it, ignoring that the preferences still think it's in #1 and it stayed. This is the configuration I originally had so now I'm happy with it.

I just hope you can glean some info from this convoluted and confusing (confound it!) post. :) I promise I won't touch any Windows monitor configurations until Windows 11 comes out!


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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:24 pm 
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jorick wrote:
First let me say that it's impossible to tell which monitor is which in WinStep. They don't follow the Windows numbering scheme, nor do they follow a standard


Actually that is absolutely NOT true. Windows numbers the monitors in an arbitrary hardware-based scheme, but Winstep numbers the monitors in a LOGICAL way: left to right, top to bottom. So, if you have three monitors side by side, #1 will always be the leftmost monitor and monitor #3 the rightmost monitor.

This gets a bit more complicated when you also start stacking monitors vertically, but the rules remain the same. Topmost/leftmost monitor will be number #1, etc...

If you want to blame somebody for this, blame Microsoft, they're the ones who made it pretty much impossible to find the number Windows uses to tag each monitor after Windows 7. I remember reading a very long discussion between another developer and Microsoft regarding this, and he was basically told to go suck an elf by the MS representative: that monitor numbering was arbitrary anyway so it shouldn't matter to users (although it obviously does as different numbering schemes cause confusion).

So, I started numbering monitors on Winstep applications in the LOGICAL way described above. At least that makes SOME sense unlike the MS way, once you stop trying to compare those numbers to the numbering scheme used by Windows.

Windows 10 decided to throw another wrench at this with their per-monitor DPI settings (Winstep applications are system-wide high DPI compatible, but not per monitor high DPI compatible). The problem is not that these changes were not needed, the problem is that Microsoft, in their we know better attitude, thought the best way to handle this was to LIE to applications that are not per-monitor DPI aware.

So, imagine you have a 4K monitor at 200% DPI and a 1080p at 100% DPI. Guess what happens then: Windows 10 is going to literally LIE and tell the Winstep application that the 4K monitor is actually a 1920 x 1080p monitor. But then when you try to use the coordinates Windows itself gave you, nothing works properly. Up to you to imagine the consequences of this.

So, the first thing you should do is check each and every monitor to figure out if ALL OF THEM are at 100% DPI or at least all have the same screen DPI settings. If not, there's your problem right there.

Please let me know either way.

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http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies


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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:20 pm
Posts: 61
All the monitors are operating in their native resolution and all are at 100% DPI.

I'm not complaining about the Winstep numbering scheme vs. the Windows scheme. I'm just having problems determining what the Winstep numbering scheme is since I can't find a map of some sort to tell me. Usually I just select a monitor and see where the shelf ends up and try again if it's in the wrong one. No big deal. But now the shelf is confused about where it is, and will crash if an attempt is made to place it where it doesn't want to be. As for crashing Explorer, I hate it so much I bought a replacement for it. There's a really good chance I wouldn't have noticed that it had crashed at all! XD

My apologies for saying Winstep didn't follow a standard. I remember now (after posting) that you said a while back that you did follow the left-to-right, top-down standard. I guess Winstep is confused because the rightmost monitor is a different size from the rest and extends down below the line dividing the top monitors from the bottom.


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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:56 pm 
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What version of Winstep Xtreme are you running?

Also, try downloading the Test Monitors applet from HERE, unzip, run, then copy & paste the results here. It will tell us what the Winstep application is seeing in terms of monitor resolutions and positions.

Both Explorer and WorkShelf crashing makes me think something might not be right in your system.

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http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies


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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:20 pm
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Nextstart.exe 18.10.0895
WSUpdate.exe 18.08.0194
Winstep.exe 18.03.0116
WsxService.exe 18.02.0095
WsxMMTimer.dll 1.00.0008

Checking for upgrades tells me I'm up to date.

Monitor tester shows:

Dell P2210 (Primary Monitor): (0,0) - (1680,1050)
Dell P2210 : (0,1050) - (1680,1050)
Dell P2210 : (1680,0) - (1680,1050)
Dell U2412M: (3360,0) - (1920,1200)
Dell P2210 : (1680,1050) - (1680,1050)

According to the task manager, Explorer didn't really crash outright. It was still there using about 3% CPU but was totally unresponsive.

I should mention that I'm using Windows 7 Enterprise, version 6.1 (build 7601, service pack 1).


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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:44 pm 
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jorick wrote:
Monitor tester shows:

Dell P2210 (Primary Monitor): (0,0) - (1680,1050)
Dell P2210 : (0,1050) - (1680,1050)
Dell P2210 : (1680,0) - (1680,1050)
Dell U2412M: (3360,0) - (1920,1200)
Dell P2210 : (1680,1050) - (1680,1050)


Is that copy & paste from the info? That Dell P2210 : (0,1050) seems to be in the wrong position... :(

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Jorge Coelho
Winstep Xtreme - Xtreme Power!
http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies


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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:08 am 
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This is copy and pasted. The 0,1050 monitor is in the left bottom position. All of the coordinates appear to be correct to me.


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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:43 am 
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I take it v18.12 did nothing to solve this issue?

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http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies


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 Post subject: Re: WorkShelf preferences editing freezes windows explorer
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:20 pm
Posts: 61
I won't know until after the new year. I'm on vacation and away from the computer. Merry Christmas and happy new year to you and yours!


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