Is there a wish-list topic?

I am considering building a small application to build/edit style config information (assume the text file in each style folder) to allow me to create and edit styles...

My aim would be to load the appropriate file (including the module image) and position all elements correctly for that image... In addition, I would also like to set all text characteristics, i.e. colour and font values...

Am looking at building this as a web based application as php is the programming language I am most familiar with...

I am aware this is not the preferred language but it does produce cross platform code and of course it would also allow others to edit styles without any programming skills directly from a browser...

In order to do this I need to get some information on these files... can anyone assist?

Yes, and this isn't it.


Jorge is in the process of making that. Considering all the compatibility shit in there, believe you me, it is *much* harder than you think.


Where's the logic in building a cross-platform sidekick, for an application that's Windows only?


Umh... I've reverse-engineered most of the settings files of a complete theme, but because of all that legacy shit I mentioned before, I have no idea if that's all or if there are other settings available or behavioural dependencies or what.

All in all, I'd say, better leave it to Jorge. He's said that he'll be building a theme maker since June (or so). No need to do the same (or worse) job again.

My apologies... I had forgotten it was commercial software not to mention it is intended for windows only...

I'll take the little experience I have and got back to writing code for opensource projects...

Best of luck with nexus and xtreme, great programs...
Mike

Hm... I see you're upset. Well, just so that you don't get upset at the wrong people, I have to add that I am in no way associated with Winstep or the programmer or anything else. I am a plain user and what I post in here are my own personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the owner, programmer, or even the admins and moderators in this forum.
So... yeah, if you feel like going ballistic, do it on me, not Winstep.

The only reason I'm posting this is because I hate to see good people take the blame. Plus, I have been known to be rather brash, on occasion.
Cheers.

No not really... while the post was a little harsh in some regards, it was pretty much bang on...

I'm afraid I've been hanging out on too many opensource forums and come to expect a different response when I offer to help in any way.... I've been coding on and off for thirty years and although no expert, I am fairly proficient in some areas...

That having been said, it is a commercial product so letting some one else deal with the issues will be a welcomed break... I'll sit back and enjoy the coffee... I'm sure the styles tools to come will be perfect...
Mike

Well, now that we're all friends again... let me just say a few things.

First and foremost, I would have nothing against anyone making anything. This isn't my software, I have no say in anything, therefore, it's not mine to say what can and can't be made for it.
Secondly, I have nothing against opensource software; I'm using opensource software whenever such a solution is viable. I don't know if you got the impression I'm against that, but I'm not.

What I have a grudge against, though, is "cross-platform". I don't like the concept; I grew up in an era when people would write code for a specific platform, and they would utilise everything in that platform to the point of exploitation. That almost always meant more compact code, more efficient use of resources, smaller memory footprint and much more speed. Today, we're in an age of "cross-platform" which means that people will have to 'settle' for some ridiculous monstrosity like Java, with an intermediate execution engine, no native binaries, memory leaks, using loads of memory, using the least common denominator from the hardware and software, and on top of that, using other "cross-platform" libraries and frameworks, which don't even behave the same or look the same as the native GUI. Honestly, whenever I see anything like Java or GTK+ or Qt, I immediately try to find some native alternative, even .net.
I mean, ok, PHP has its uses for the web, but why I would want to use an application that's being run, essentially, on an *interpreter* running on my computer, is beyond me. Layers upon layers upon layers of software, so we've come to an age where you need 300MB of RAM just to use a word processor (hint: see OpenOffice)!
Sorry, it's not you, it's my aversion to the computer world version of globalisation. In this case, I may have overreacted a bit.

Lastly... well, like you said, it's someone else's problem. On top of that, you don't even have all the necessary data to reverse-engineer a true theme maker; you'd have to check with every single theme ever made -- and not only for Workshelf, because it's compatible with other docks' themes too. Whereas, Jorge has the *source* and the knowledge, because he made it. And on top of *that*, he's got the rendering engine readily available, which means that he can make a theme maker that produces a real-time preview of the theme settings, with 100% accuracy. You just can't, unless you code a functionally identical duplicate of Workshelf, in which case you could make your own "workshelf" and I'm sure you'd want to sell it like he does.

Well, summing it all up, it just seemed a waste of time to try and do something like that, because it'd have to be too 'basic' in function, and could very soon be superseded by the "official" theme maker. Seriously, I wouldn't mind having something like that at all and I would be willing to give you my fully (well, sort of) annotated files to help you have a more complete picture, but by the time we're done, it could be too late.

So... have a pint and wait while he makes the ®Theme Maker™©.
Cheers mate!

Hey Mike!

Sorry I didn't post until now, I've been extremely busy trying to get the next release out the door and I noticed you and Skagon had already 'made up' (not to mention he 'made good' on coming up so strong on his first post - new users here don't know who is official and who isn't).

Anyway, thanks for your offer to help, it is much appreciated, but, as Skagon pointed out, it would probably be a waste of your time if you focused your efforts on building a Theme Maker.

Skinning settings used to be a part of the application itself until the great User Interface change that happened a couple of years ago. Since the vast majority of users would never do a skin, those settings were simply 'in the way', cluttering up the UI.

The idea was to move the skinning settings into a separate 'Theme Builder', but, because there wasn't much interest in skinning Winstep applications at the time, efforts ended up being focused on adding new features to the core applications instead - and so the Theme Builder got left behind.

These days interest in skinning Winstep applications is growing again, so I find myself under increased pressure to bring the Theme Builder out of vaporware land.

Because of the time it would take you to get familiar with all the skinning settings and nuances (keep in mind that Winstep applications have been in constant development for the past 12 years+, so there is a lot to learn there), it's probably better (and faster) that I do the damn thing myself.

Not that I am looking forward to it, mind you. It's mostly boring, UI, work - but it needs to get done.

Then you also have the old Open Source vs. Commercial Software thingy. With Open Source being free, the question on who owns what does not even exist. Commercial Software is a very different beast, as you know.

That explains a lot... 12 years... also explains a lot

The post was prompted after I created a couple of styles but could not align output text to image location...

I'm a C programmer, so my choice of php was a logical choice, the fact that it provides cross platform support was secondary... The biggest advantage is the avoidance of all the overhead associated with windows programming... no libraries, no dll's just php and your browser...

I stopped writing code for PC's a few years back, in part this was due to many of the reasons expressed by skagon in his last post but also because development has become more about managing code resources and less about writing code...

In my world libraries are only used if I have access to original source, dependencies are non existent, and dll's are avoided at all cost... In short, programs do not rely on, or use, any external material... My world has a population of 2, and we run DOS machines

Heh... would you look at that! We're more alike than I thought...