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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:44 am 
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Last we heard any real news here about what's happening was Saturday after so-called black Friday, saying official release likely day after 'Cyber Monday'. Well, the latter's long been and gone, and still no news of any kind? What's happening Jorge? Inquiring minds want to know. ;)

People like to be kept informed. Users of apps are no exception.


Real life got in the way. 'nuff said.

Now that November is gone and v18.11 has effectively become v18.12, there is no real reason to rush the release.

Think the date is slowly moving on(holiday season) Jorge so what is expected in v18.12?
Or is it just a small maintenance release? Tying up a few lose ends.

We know you are working on multi monitor problems, but out else exciting.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:33 am 
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oOSGearOo wrote:
Think the date is slowly moving on(holiday season) Jorge so what is expected in v18.12?
Or is it just a small maintenance release? Tying up a few lose ends.

We know you are working on multi monitor problems, but out else exciting.


Errr... you realize that all this new Grid Stack, Search Filter, etc, stuff has NOT been OFFICIALLY released yet, don't you? It's still in beta - so that is what is new and exciting (but not for you because you are already running the latest beta).

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:53 am 
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winstep wrote:
Anyway, for me there are not better examples of greediness than EA and Bethesda - what is currently happening with Fallout 76 and their response is nothing more than mind blowing. It's like they're determined to destroy their own company.


Don't remind me of that... I don't care about EA for a long time anymore. It's sad, since there was a time where an EA logo meant something. The same goes for Bioware and Square Enix. (since it's not Squaresoft anymore)
But with Bethesda it actually hurts. Morrowind is my favourite game of all time.
It's all because of their CEO. He never actually played any game. He's just interested in numbers. He's forcing the developers to add stuff like micro transactions to the games.
The reason for all this is always the same. Growth/expansion. Why do everyone has to grow explosively nowadays? As if there would be no tomorrow. The costs grow immeasurably and it gets harder and harder to stay in market...
Conclusion - don't support such companies anymore and wait for the next one that delivers quality.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:56 pm 
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winstep wrote:
sacco_belmonte wrote:
Tried that, even tried restarting the workshelf after turning off multi monitor profiles and it still does the same.


Ok. Not good. However I think I know what might be behind this. In the video you posted, go to 4:10 and look at the rightmost monitor (while 'things' are happening in the other two monitors). You should see a pop up window quickly appearing and then disappearing just as the game is being launched.

This is what is causing the trouble, more likely than not. The vast majority of games run an executable and that executable changes the screen resolution and immediately goes full screen. If you look at the video, just about when you say 'it goes directly into it', it is actually NOT going directly into it.

Not only can you see that pop up at the right, as if you look at the left bottom screen you can also see the Windows taskbar pop up and quickly disappear again.

There is no feature in Windows that allows 3rd party applications to know when a full screen game is running or is getting ready to run, there is only a notification that tells 3rd party applications that the screen resolution has been changed (or monitors have been added/removed, etc).

Despite this, the Winstep application needs to know when the user himself manually initiates a screen resolution change (so it can reposition its objects within the new visible area) or when a game does this (so it does nothing until the game exits).

So, when the Winstep application gets the notification that *something* has happened to the viewable screen space, it first checks to see if the screen resolution has changed. If it has, then it waits half a second to give enough time for the game to stabilize/launch, and after that delay it checks to see if the current foreground window is a FULL SCREEN window. If it is, it assumes a full screen game has just been launched and is currently running and does absolutely nothing more other than disable edge bump activations etc (so it does not interfere with the game).

If, on the other hand, after half a second the current foreground window is NOT a full screen window, then it can only assume one of two things: either the screen resolution change happened because we just exited a full screen game (in which case we must refresh the visible objects as DX games may have corrupted the layered windows) OR it's a screen resolution change initiated by the user (in which case objects must be repositioned, reserved screen areas reset, etc)

I think that what that particular game is doing when launching (and notice how long it takes to launch, even on a fast machine) makes WorkShelf assume the later. This in turn takes focus away from the game, which makes it minimize to the taskbar and apparently returns screen resolution to whatever it was before.

I'm not really sure what can be done to solve this. Perhaps increase the waiting delay to 1 second or even a bit more. Another possible solution would be adding a 'compatibility game list' the user can fill with shortcuts to games that misbehave (so WorkShelf does nothing if that executable is running) but even that would not be 100% fool proof because some games use a separate launcher.

My vote goes for increasing the delay - but that has the drawback of nothing happening after a screen resolution change (e.g.; when returning from a game, manually changing screen resolutions or adding/removing monitors) while the delay is in effect.


Shall we try? Maybe you can even temporarily add a slider or a box where I can put the delay in seconds and tell you what worked better?


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 Post subject: Windows Focus bug
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:08 am 
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Hello Jorge.

Thank-you for all your hard work. I would like to help you if I could. There is one bug that I believe is clearly a Winstep-Chrome issue.
I have noticed a window focus bug (z-order) that has existed for years in every version of the Winstep Nexus Dock, since at least v14. Windows 7, 8, and 10 are all affected.

I would love if you could track down the bug and squash it.

What Happens:

- I will click on the task bar to switch to a different task (for example Chrome browser to a notepad document) but as I move the mouse cursor away from the task bar, the first window pops back on top of the task I had just selected.

- it will repeat usually two, three, or four times then suddenly behave normally.

- it ONLY happens when the Winstep Dock is running, and afaik only when it is docked to the bottom of the screen.

- I have never seen this behavior when the dock is closed.

- This has been seen on w7, w8, and windows 10 machines.

- It seems to be something to do with the Chrome browser and winstep.

- just now, as I was typing this post, I had someone typing a google hangouts message and the window focus kept switching over to the other chrome session. I closed the Winstep Dock and the behavior immediately stopped.


Proof of Concept:

- The worst part is, it is not consistent. It happens when it happens. It is difficult to recreate the scenario. With a little patience I could recreate it for you. Would you like me to capture a video of what is happening.

The bug shows itself regularly. I even had a windows 10 start menu losing focus to another app every time my mouse would pass by the nexus dock.

Has anyone else noticed this?


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 Post subject: Re: Windows Focus bug
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:31 am 
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this wrote:
- The worst part is, it is not consistent. It happens when it happens. It is difficult to recreate the scenario. With a little patience I could recreate it for you. Would you like me to capture a video of what is happening.

The bug shows itself regularly. I even had a windows 10 start menu losing focus to another app every time my mouse would pass by the nexus dock.


Is this the free version of Nexus, Nexus Ultimate or Winstep Xtreme?

If the free version of Nexus, open Preferences and go to the Behavior tab. If any of the other, open the Dock Properties dialog for that dock and go to the Behavior tab.

Now click the Activation Settings button. In the Activation Settings dialog, is 'Bring dock forward on mouse over' enabled? If so, what is the pop up delay? Does disabling this setting solve the problem?

Also, yes, a video would be nice, thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:19 pm
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winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Last we heard any real news here about what's happening was Saturday after so-called black Friday, saying official release likely day after 'Cyber Monday'. Well, the latter's long been and gone, and still no news of any kind? What's happening Jorge? Inquiring minds want to know. ;)

People like to be kept informed. Users of apps are no exception.

Real life got in the way. 'nuff said.

Now that November is gone and v18.11 has effectively become v18.12, there is no real reason to rush the release.

Ouch. That's a bummer.

Yes, makes no difference here. Beta is running perfectly smoothly here with no problems of any kind. :) Still, might be a good idea to get it out about a week or so before the culmination of the 'Great Greed Celebration' to hopefully cash in on that. ;)

Hate that exercise. No time for it. All the same - I'll use the Íslenska (Icelandic) greeting instead, which has a bit more meaning....

Gleðige Yól :p

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:51 pm 
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winstep wrote:
toniostarcevic wrote:
The option is not checked. The folder exists and it contains four files.


Chuck wrote:
NextStart does NOT remember reserved space settings for a second monitor. Period.


Ok guys, I need you to test something and let me know ASAP, I am now running out of time:

Download the new beta of Winstep Xtreme from HERE, exit all running Winstep applications, unzip and run setup.

Toni, you need to see if the Shelves, etc, now become active when plugging in the second monitor *for the second time* (remember, the new profiles need to be saved first, so you need to set everything up in the single monitor system first, then go from one monitor to two, set everything up for two monitors, then back to single monitor to see if the single monitor config is applied correctly, then back to two monitors to see if the multi-mon config is applied correctly).

Chuck, likewise you will need to reset the NextSTART Reserved Areas at least once per each monitor configuration, then switch between them to see if they are now being remembered.

Whatever happens, please post your results here and ALSO the resulting monitor profile files (I've also added some info to them that will help me diagnose what can be wrong if something doesn't work right).

Again, time is of the essence.

OK, just returned home to try this. Shelves remember their monitor locations and NextStart remembers the reserved space settings. However, NextStart does not apply the reserved space settings. I must open Preferences and click apply.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Chuck wrote:
OK, just returned home to try this. Shelves remember their monitor locations and NextStart remembers the reserved space settings. However, NextStart does not apply the reserved space settings. I must open Preferences and click apply.


Weird, since the appbars (the objects responsible for reserving screen space) are all destroyed/reset AFTER loading the new monitor profile, and are then re-applied with the new settings.

Could you please try this with only NextSTART running (i.e.; exit WorkShelf first) and let me know if it still behaves the same?

Also, how long (in seconds) do you think it takes between you adding/removing a monitor and everything 'calming down' again?

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:11 pm 
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sacco_belmonte wrote:
Shall we try? Maybe you can even temporarily add a slider or a box where I can put the delay in seconds and tell you what worked better?


I have to think better about this. The function I am using now for the half a second wait actually puts the thread to sleep (i.e.; the whole application becomes unresponsive) so it receives no notifications and is not interrupted during the wait period. However, one thing is to do this for half a second, quite another to do it for 4 seconds or longer.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:01 pm 
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Ok, Toni, Sacco, Chuck, please download a new beta of Winstep Xtreme from HERE, exit all running Winstep applications, unzip and run setup.

Let me know if this solved any of the issues.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:01 pm 
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winstep wrote:
Ok, Toni, Sacco, Chuck, please download a new beta of Winstep Xtreme from HERE, exit all running Winstep applications, unzip and run setup.

Let me know if this solved any of the issues.

Wouldn't it be simpler to do these tests in a VM?

I've been setting up Hyper-V (with a couple of GNU/Linux distros, NetBSD and NeXTSTEP 3.3 - all working like a charm!) and am thinking of adding a Windows 10 (or possibly 7?) VM for exactly this kind of thing - testing Winstep betas and as a test-bed for my themes in lieu of using a load of separate user accounts on the host system.

Or would a VM on the same system count as a Winstep installation on a 2nd machine in terms of licensing?

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Tried multiple times.

1) The monitors keep changing resolution non stop until I force quit (ALT+F4) the game. So basically this update made it worse.

2) The dock ends on the upper monitor after each attempt as always had.

3) While the workshelf is not running I can load the game fine.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:43 pm 
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sacco_belmonte wrote:
1) The monitors keep changing resolution non stop until I force quit (ALT+F4) the game. So basically this update made it worse.


Wait, what do you mean by this? It actually gets into the game but then goes back to the desktop?

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:44 pm 
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nexter wrote:
Wouldn't it be simpler to do these tests in a VM?


I can't mimic their configs in a VM.

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