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So, what's next after v17.1?
https://forums.winstep.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10409
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Author:  winstep [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

Dino7405 wrote:
Any chance we could still get a grid option for Stacks, even though the Shelf already has the same functionality?


I don't think I explained myself well, then: I meant use the Shelf *code* to make the Grid option for Stacks.

Author:  Dino7405 [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

winstep wrote:
Dino7405 wrote:
Any chance we could still get a grid option for Stacks, even though the Shelf already has the same functionality?


I don't think I explained myself well, then: I meant use the Shelf *code* to make the Grid option for Stacks.


Nah...you probably did; I'm just slow, LOL! :) OK, got it now. Thanks!!

Author:  winstep [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

seeker wrote:
2 internal commands: hide all docks+modules and manage alarms internal command/shortcut


Btw, already added those ICs. The part that took longer was coming up with icons for them. :)

Also added a new sound event, 'Take Picture', with a default camera shutter sound used when you click on the 'Capture Desktop' IC.

Author:  seeker [ Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

nice

Author:  winstep [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

seeker wrote:
nice


Added an optional delay to the 'Capture Desktop' IC too, up to 9 seconds. This allows you to trigger the screen capture and setup whatever scene you want before it fires.

The number of seconds remaining is displayed in the icon, and the clock tick sound is heard every time it changes. I believe this delay feature was an original request made by Yellow, a looong time ago. :)

Author:  winstep [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

Oh, and you can abort the countdown (and the screen capture) by pressing and holding the ESC key.

Author:  skagon [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

Chuck wrote:
skagon wrote:
"THEME BUILDER!!!"

I appreciate your perspective and passion, but disagree. Having spent years with the likes of WindowBlinds to make my systems "look cool," I've definitely built an appreciation for what themes provide. As I get older, however, I've grown to prefer functionality to appearance and have stepped away from "eye candy" programs.

Software like Winstep provides much functionality I fund useful. That's why I've stuck with it for over a decade. Themes, while attractive, along with a theme builder to make them, may be important to many. They are not nearly as meaningful to me as something like a vertical shelf.

Simply put, I prefer substance over style.


You just don't get it, do you?
Let me put it as simply as possible: even if you completely forget "cool" looks, and even if you decide that, say, Windows 10 looks are adequate for you, now in your old looks-oblivious age, you still need a theme to go.

Winstep applications have *no* native looks. They're all theme-dependent. So, even if you need something simple, even if, say, you were living in the Windows XP era and wanted something to go with your blue tray and red "X" button, you would still need a theme. And guess what; someone to build it for you. Or some way to do it yourself, which would not include countless hours on notepad, editing config files.

Like it or not, looks are half of what Winstep is all about. Personally, I've never gotten tired of good looks. However, it's all about homogeneity to me.
That's why I once made an entire theme for Winstep based on Hyperdesk's "Star Trek TOS" theme. And a few months past, a full "Windows 10" theme.
Neither of them have been published, though. Why? No theme builder, so I haven't finished either. Simply because I can't be arsed to edit 10 config files and apply and re-apply, in order to remember what each setting does and where I want it to be.

Now, you could be completely colour- or appearance-blind. Most people are not, though. I don't believe many people would like to see a new spiffy module, placed atop a God-awful-looking dock (yes, Tiki, Immalookinatchyou).

P.S. By the way, what good would WindowBlinds be, if it couldn't skin half the windows? Food for thought.

Author:  Chuck [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

skagon wrote:
Chuck wrote:
skagon wrote:
"THEME BUILDER!!!"

I appreciate your perspective and passion, but disagree. Having spent years with the likes of WindowBlinds to make my systems "look cool," I've definitely built an appreciation for what themes provide. As I get older, however, I've grown to prefer functionality to appearance and have stepped away from "eye candy" programs.

Software like Winstep provides much functionality I fund useful. That's why I've stuck with it for over a decade. Themes, while attractive, along with a theme builder to make them, may be important to many. They are not nearly as meaningful to me as something like a vertical shelf.

Simply put, I prefer substance over style.


You just don't get it, do you?

Skagon, I do get it. I appreciate that themes are the top of the list for you and, perhaps, many others. I understand what it's all about for you and certainly understand Jorge's business argument.
Quote:
Let me put it as simply as possible: even if you completely forget "cool" looks, and even if you decide that, say, Windows 10 looks are adequate for you, now in your old looks-oblivious age, you still need a theme to go.

This may be true, but there are already themes built in to the program that did NOT require Jorge to provide a theme builder or users to employ a theme builder if they were happy with the themes that were included with the program purchase.
Quote:
Winstep applications have *no* native looks. They're all theme-dependent. So, even if you need something simple, even if, say, you were living in the Windows XP era and wanted something to go with your blue tray and red "X" button, you would still need a theme. And guess what; someone to build it for you. Or some way to do it yourself, which would not include countless hours on notepad, editing config files.

Understood. And yet we have themes included, built by both Jorge and others through various means, already included in the software. I personally don't need a theme builder because I am satisfied with what is already included.
Quote:
Like it or not, looks are half of what Winstep is all about. Personally, I've never gotten tired of good looks. However, it's all about homogeneity to me.
That's why I once made an entire theme for Winstep based on Hyperdesk's "Star Trek TOS" theme. And a few months past, a full "Windows 10" theme.
Neither of them have been published, though. Why? No theme builder, so I haven't finished either. Simply because I can't be arsed to edit 10 config files and apply and re-apply, in order to remember what each setting does and where I want it to be.

Again, I appreciate your position; it's just not mine.

Quote:
Now, you could be completely colour- or appearance-blind. Most people are not, though. I don't believe many people would like to see a new spiffy module, placed atop a God-awful-looking dock (yes, Tiki, Immalookinatchyou).

I am neither colour- nor appearance-blind. In fact, I choose not to use the modules as, although they ay prove helpful for some, are distracting for me. I use Winstep Xtreme strictly for the NextStart and WorkShelf functionality to organize access to program shortcuts and replace the task tray. Again, my personal choice.
Quote:
P.S. By the way, what good would WindowBlinds be, if it couldn't skin half the windows? Food for thought.
I'm sure it would be dead to a lot of people. Since I stopped using WindowBlinds years ago, it really doesn't matter to me what it does or does not do.

Beyond that, look at the priority list I posted. A theme builder comes in at #3. I understand it's importance to many, you included, as well as Jorge's business case. Your positions, based on your respective points of view, make perfect sense. For me, two functions (vertical shelf, multiple shelves) would prove more useful to me and, thus, rate higher for me.

Author:  winstep [ Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

Different people, different strokes. No argument is needed here.

Anyway, for the moment I'm still dabbling with smaller things - until I build up enough momentum to tackle the bigger things. :)

Seeker, it just occurred to me that a static icon for the new 'Alarm Manager' IC is probably a waste of potential. I have no hard data to back this up, but it seems to me that the Alarms in Winstep applications are becoming a very popular feature.

Given this, a dedicated 'Alarm Manager' IC for quick access makes all the sense, but I think it could perhaps go a step further - what I'm not sure is how useful such a thing might be or not.

What I'm thinking about is making it a 'live' icon instead of a static icon, in that the icon itself provides some information regarding alarms. I'm attaching the simple icon I did for the new Alarm Manager IC below for you guys to get a clearer picture of where I'm going with this (pun intended :P ).

I could separate the bell from the background button - this way the background could still be any user-defined image, with the bell super-imposed by the application. Then I could either remove the 'ringing circles' in the bell _OR_ turn the background image grayscale _OR_ do both _OR_ render the bell gray instead of white if no alarms are currently active.

This way the icon itself would already be giving you some information regarding alarms. Further information could be given in the icon label by mousing over the icon, e.g.; when is the next alarm firing. The balloon tooltip could give some further information as well.

What do you guys think? Worth the trouble or not?

Also, regarding Stacks: should I go all the way in and allow the fan mode Stacks to support mouseover effects from the get go like the dock, or should take the easy way in and basically show static icons like the original does?

Attachments:
Alarm-Manager.png
Alarm-Manager.png [ 75.49 KiB | Viewed 9785 times ]

Author:  seeker [ Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

winstep wrote:

This way the icon itself would already be giving you some information regarding alarms. Further information could be given in the icon label by mousing over the icon, e.g.; when is the next alarm firing. The balloon tooltip could give some further information as well.

What do you guys think? Worth the trouble or not?


how about two different icons like for email checker?

Author:  winstep [ Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

seeker wrote:
how about two different icons like for email checker?


No can do. Only modules support that.

Author:  skagon [ Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

Yeah, I'm sorry guys. It's just me getting frustrated. I suppose it's a combination of things. I'll just say my piece and shut up, bear with me.

I suppose, firstly, I just can't begin to fathom how anyone could *not* care about how things look. Like I said, it's not strictly people who are obsessed with skinning everything. I don't consider myself to be a "fanatic", but, for example, the mere fact that no existing Winstep theme matches the new Windows 10 look, made me annoyed enough to sit down and make one.
I just can't bear things looking like this here and like that there.
This also goes to include existing themes and new features. What if, for example, like Chuck, you're perfectly ok with an existing theme, and then Jorge goes and adds, say, vertical shelves. And it looks awful, with ANY theme applied. Or that much-requested "stacks" thingy. And guess what. Nobody knows how to construct a theme for it, since it's new and no themes exist that include it!

And this takes me to my second point. The Theme Builder is either on top, or nowhere. You can't have it in position 2, 3, or 4. Why? Simply because it has to keep up with Winstep. If Jorge adds a new functionality, a new module, a new way of showing things, he also has to go to the Theme Builder and update it to cover that new thing stat.
It's not reasonable to have an out-of-date theme creator application. You can't have it on #3. It's as simple as that!

/rant off

Author:  TheExplorographer [ Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

I could be wrong, not sure what everyone else wants and I speak for no one but myself. I would like a simple drag a folder of shortcuts to the dock, it creates a "stack". Something "simple". For me it doesn't need to even be the curvy style like OSeX. Icons the sizable would be about it and an option for text/no text. Would love it if it were rollover as well..but eh, left-click is fine with me.. :-)

Author:  winstep [ Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

Out of curiosity, how important would the MacOSX curvy style be for the fan Stack?

Author:  Dino7405 [ Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, what's next after v17.1?

winstep wrote:
Out of curiosity, how important would the MacOSX curvy style be for the fan Stack?


Not very important, though I believe the characteristic curve is why they call it a "fan"

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