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 Post subject: Google’s Project Nightingale: A Scary Reality
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:40 pm 
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Posts: 789
I’ve never been a fan of Google. They are a dangerous invasive company that continues to violate end user’s privacy. Being how the world is today, it’s very difficult to totally avoid crossing paths with them.

They have their tentacles into nearly everything! Now they’re invading people’s medical privacy!! The scumbags recently bought Fitbit which knows your heartbeat. And to make matters even more scary, Google is partnered with Ascension, the second largest healthcare company in the world!

They’re collecting lab results, doctor’s diagnosis, health surveys, hospitalizations, and all this information is plugged into their software (they’re using artificial intelligence) to then supposedly spit out what kind of help you might need.

Unbelievably, they’re not violating any HIPAA laws. It’s all legal. :evil: :(

https://www.androidauthority.com/google ... e-1052847/


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 Post subject: Re: Google’s Project Nightingale: A Scary Reality
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:44 pm 
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And then this follow-up post:

https://www.androidauthority.com/google ... a-1053038/

The data is de-identified. I work with pilot training records. I'm very used to the idea of de-identified data. This just means that we run, for example, a report on the pass/failure rates of pilots doing a check ride. A check ride is like a final exam in the simulator or aircraft for which the pilot is attempting to get qualified. It happens after all of their ground and flight training is complete.

De-identifying means we've scrubbed (via redaction or other means) the names of the pilots, both the student and the instructor, from the report before handing it over to the FAA.

I could care less that some organization knows that there is someone out there with my heart rate, or weight, or activity level, etc. If my name isn't attached to the data, why should I care? The data can be used to help my fellow humans by providing better medical care and facilities.

I'm not saying Google is above reproach. I'm just saying that, perhaps, people are crying wolf when, in this case, there was no wolf.


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 Post subject: Re: Google’s Project Nightingale: A Scary Reality
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:56 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:19 pm
Posts: 832
Location: UK
OK Ric, the data that *you* receive may have been anonymised for *your* use, but can they really be trusted not to hold on to very personal data for other purposes?

Personally, I don't trust any of the tech etc. giants any further than I could spit a 2-tonne rock. All of them highly intrusive, Google, Amazon, Apple, Ebay, MS, Facebook, Twitter, etc. etc. The only way to steer clear of their intruding clutches is to only use private browsing in Firefox, with all hatches battened down, if you can't use TOR, preferably stay in Linux for your OS, never use smartphone apps, oh and throw that feckin' bitch Alexa in the garbage - she spies for Amazon. And don't ever use voice control on any smart TVs - keep all that shit disabled.

Oh, and you might also want to consider an anonymous and totally encrypted email service and encrypted messaging prog. And don't entrust anything private to the phone or your cell phone. It's good to be totally paranoid in this day and age folks! And just because you may be paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you. :P

As for AI, there's no such thing. Yet, anyway, and it's a long, long way off still. Artificial stupidity would be a far more appropriate term to refer to autonomous machine learning algorithms.

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nexter - so, what's next?


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 Post subject: Re: Google’s Project Nightingale: A Scary Reality
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:51 pm
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I don't receive anonymous data from the FAA, I provide de-identified data to the FAA.

Regardless, I maintain that I do not care if someone gets my data without my identity. I am not arrogant enough to think anybody gives a flip about me or my life.

I'm reminded of the feeling people had just after the September 11th attacks. Even small towns were panicking that they were going to be attacked. New York is one of the largest cities in the world and they thought somebody was going to attack their village of 11,213 people. Seriously? Have some common sense! I lived in Phoenix and we are so spread out geographically (Phoenix builds out, not up), you would need to do something like a carpet bomb run or some "area-effect" weapon to get a large number of casualties.

In short, there are no boogeymen out to get me.

I believe in a world where you're not evil just because you created or work in a large corporation. In my opinion, you are far eviler if you drive while intoxicated.


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 Post subject: Re: Google’s Project Nightingale: A Scary Reality
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:35 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:19 pm
Posts: 832
Location: UK
Ric, if you still seriously believe that nobody could give a stuff about you and your personal data - that may be cute, but it's being very, very naive. Your, and everyone else's, personal data of all sorts are the hottest commodity on the planet today and vast fortunes are made on the back of them. Not only do data harvested from you help direct targeted advertising at you - evil enough in itself - but they can influence and determine other aspects of your life too. You have an horrific private health system in the US. Data harvested about you - and you'd be amazed at the kind of pathways of data - could, e.g., easily influence your health insurance premium and the extent of your cover and thus have a direct bearing on your health. Your motor insurance likewise can be affected, and for that matter any other kind of insurance. That job you're after - sorry, you loose out, they found something in your past they don't like. Whoops, you posted something bad about tech corp. 'A' on a Winstep forum 8 years ago - sorry, they don't want to chance having you on board. How good/bad a credit risk are you? What is your spending like, what products etc. etc. etc. I could go on and on but I hope you get the gist of the thing.

And don't give me that spiel about if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about. Besides all else, that's totally besides the point anyway - any kind of data about anybody are nobody's effing business, period, simple as that. My business with my doctor/s is *my* damn business, not some damn corporation that bought the data. What I do on my computer is my sodding business too, not anyone else's, what I use to go online and connect to what site is my own business, etc. etc. Privacy matters!

And all corporations in a capitalist system are inherently evil, and tech giants especially so. Time for the European Commission to throw far more spanners in the works for the likes of Google, Amazon, Apple, Ebay, MS etc., and also tax the hell out of those barstewards that keep avoiding paying their fair share.

Personally, I'm planning to stop using Windows online altogether as soon as I can and just maintain an XP 32bit system, a Win 7 and a Win 10 one each totally offline for those apps I can't get elsewhere. Instead, I'll mostly run just Gnu/Linux distros and probably FreeBSD. My 'new' machine is already completely Linux now, although I have Win 10 running in a VM for the time being but normally without online access.

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nexter - so, what's next?


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 Post subject: Re: Google’s Project Nightingale: A Scary Reality
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:47 pm
Posts: 789
nexter wrote:
OK Ric, the data that *you* receive may have been anonymised for *your* use, but can they really be trusted not to hold on to very personal data for other purposes?

Personally, I don't trust any of the tech etc. giants any further than I could spit a 2-tonne rock. All of them highly intrusive, Google, Amazon, Apple, Ebay, MS, Facebook, Twitter, etc. etc. The only way to steer clear of their intruding clutches is to only use private browsing in Firefox, with all hatches battened down, if you can't use TOR, preferably stay in Linux for your OS, never use smartphone apps, oh and throw that feckin' bitch Alexa in the garbage - she spies for Amazon. And don't ever use voice control on any smart TVs - keep all that shit disabled.

Oh, and you might also want to consider an anonymous and totally encrypted email service and encrypted messaging prog. And don't entrust anything private to the phone or your cell phone. It's good to be totally paranoid in this day and age folks! And just because you may be paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you. :P

As for AI, there's no such thing. Yet, anyway, and it's a long, long way off still. Artificial stupidity would be a far more appropriate term to refer to autonomous machine learning algorithms.


nexter wrote:
And all corporations in a capitalist system are inherently evil, and tech giants especially so. Time for the European Commission to throw far more spanners in the works for the likes of Google, Amazon, Apple, Ebay, MS etc., and also tax the hell out of those barstewards that keep avoiding paying their fair share.


I'm a firm believer in capitalism, however, none of them can be trusted with our data whether it's identified or not. They continually violate our privacy and refuse to cease their intrusive behavior.

Alexa is the most invasive piece of useless machinery in use nowadays. I tell everyone I see that has Alexa to throw that abomination in the garbage. And I tell anyone that asks me about getting it to save their money and use it for something else.


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 Post subject: Re: Google’s Project Nightingale: A Scary Reality
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:03 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:19 pm
Posts: 832
Location: UK
Windy wrote:
nexter wrote:
And all corporations in a capitalist system are inherently evil, and tech giants especially so. Time for the European Commission to throw far more spanners in the works for the likes of Google, Amazon, Apple, Ebay, MS etc., and also tax the hell out of those barstewards that keep avoiding paying their fair share.


I'm a firm believer in capitalism, however, none of them can be trusted with our data whether it's identified or not. They continually violate our privacy and refuse to cease their intrusive behavior.

Alexa is the most invasive piece of useless machinery in use nowadays. I tell everyone I see that has Alexa to throw that abomination in the garbage. And I tell anyone that asks me about getting it to save their money and use it for something else.

Well Windy, we could argue or debate about capitalism till the cows come home, so I won't go there. :) But I concur that none can be trusted with our data in any way, shape, or form. That is one of the main reasons why I've moved over almost completely to Linux, and of course also TOR. Internet wise, I expect to keep Windows completely off it within months now except for the occasional update.

However, on Alexa we're certainly in complete agreement. Fortunately so far I've only ever been to someone's home that had that bitch piece of trash once. And I asked them to kindly switch the damn thing off and put it in another room or I wouldn't stay. They did remove the offending article, and i then proceeded to enlighten them about what it got up to and how their data were used - or rather, misused - by Amazon.

Amazon, BTW, probably makes at least as much revenue from the data it harvests - be that through Echo etc. or even their Kindle ebook reader, or through your browsing, and more - as it does from everything else. (Ebay is even worse in some respects - it's almost impossible to circumvent their intrusions if you want to use them at all. With Amazon's site, you've got a chance to some extent as it will let you use the site via TOR Browser.)

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nexter - so, what's next?


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 Post subject: Re: Google’s Project Nightingale: A Scary Reality
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:47 pm
Posts: 789
nexter wrote:
Well Windy, we could argue or debate about capitalism till the cows come home, so I won't go there. :) But I concur that none can be trusted with our data in any way, shape, or form.
Image

DesertDwarf wrote:
And then this follow-up post:

https://www.androidauthority.com/google ... a-1053038/

The data is de-identified. I work with pilot training records. I'm very used to the idea of de-identified data. This just means that we run, for example, a report on the pass/failure rates of pilots doing a check ride. A check ride is like a final exam in the simulator or aircraft for which the pilot is attempting to get qualified. It happens after all of their ground and flight training is complete.

De-identifying means we've scrubbed (via redaction or other means) the names of the pilots, both the student and the instructor, from the report before handing it over to the FAA.

I could care less that some organization knows that there is someone out there with my heart rate, or weight, or activity level, etc. If my name isn't attached to the data, why should I care? The data can be used to help my fellow humans by providing better medical care and facilities.

I'm not saying Google is above reproach. I'm just saying that, perhaps, people are crying wolf when, in this case, there was no wolf.


I’m sure your employer isn’t in the same category as Google, FB and others that are violating users privacy, at least in the case you've posted about being that the info they're providing is going to the FAA and not being sold to entities that are targeting us.

If your employer didn’t scrub the identity or used the info in the same way Google, FB and others do, they would be facing the wrath of whatever government the pilots are associated with, especially if the pilots are employed by the government.


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 Post subject: Re: Google’s Project Nightingale: A Scary Reality
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:51 pm
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DesertDwarf wrote:
And then this follow-up post:

https://www.androidauthority.com/google ... a-1053038/

The data is de-identified. I work with pilot training records. I'm very used to the idea of de-identified data. This just means that we run, for example, a report on the pass/failure rates of pilots doing a check ride. A check ride is like a final exam in the simulator or aircraft for which the pilot is attempting to get qualified. It happens after all of their ground and flight training is complete.

De-identifying means we've scrubbed (via redaction or other means) the names of the pilots, both the student and the instructor, from the report before handing it over to the FAA.

I could care less that some organization knows that there is someone out there with my heart rate, or weight, or activity level, etc. If my name isn't attached to the data, why should I care? The data can be used to help my fellow humans by providing better medical care and facilities.

I'm not saying Google is above reproach. I'm just saying that, perhaps, people are crying wolf when, in this case, there was no wolf.


I’m sure your employer isn’t in the same category as Google, FB and others that are violating users privacy, at least in the case you've posted about being that the info they're providing is going to the FAA and not being sold to entities that are targeting us.

If your employer didn’t scrub the identity or used the info in the same way Google, FB and others do, they would be facing the wrath of whatever government the pilots are associated with, especially if the pilots are employed by the government.[/quote]

For certain data, we are required by the FAA to remove the names of both student and instructor and the FAA is required to not accept identified data. At that job, I had a new boss. He was a manager without a department and we were a department without a manager. The vice president of the department wanted to have me take over as manager, but the higher-ups needed to put Bill somewhere, so they made him manager. He's a good guy who just a little bit too sure of himself.

Bill didn't know about the de-identification requirement. He also didn't talk to me about the report beforehand. He provided a report without de-identifying the data. My boss's boss (the vice president) came to me and showed me the email he had gotten back from the FAA. He asked me to run the report and send it to the FAA. He then also had a meeting with Bill and told him anytime you need to communicate with the FAA, you run it by Ric first. lol

The email from the FAA was an official advisement that they had used their email system's permanent non-recoverable delete function on the emailed report to destroy all copies of it and to please send us a de-identified copy.

Be that as it may, compliance with HIPAA regulations between corporations is not the same as directly communicating with government employees. I could envision a scenario where the sender forgot (or didn't know) to scrub certain data before transmission (like Bill) and, in the interest of expediency, the recipient employees would do a scrub of received data. That's not the right way to do it, but I could see it happening.

However, given the current culture of "we will find out what you did wrong and we will expose you," it probably wouldn't take too long for some anonymous group to provide data proving that so-and-so was outside of HIPAA compliance. If there's a chance your massive data push includes too much data, a hacker will find it and will post about it somewhere or an insider will leak it.

Knowing that such exposure could happen leads to better actions if the parties involved think more the way I hypothesized two paragraphs ago.

I will repeat this sentence, "The data can be used to help my fellow humans by providing better medical care and facilities." I am all for that. I will not hold my data back just to protect me. Hack away at my heart-rate all you want. I'm sure I can stand it.

Perhaps I suffer from a lack of self-aggrandization.


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