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 Post subject: NSA Discloses New Russian-made Drovorub Malware
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:19 am 
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I was made aware of this on cable news. This is serious folks! So much so that the NSA has done something it rarely does, expose hacking tools of this kind. They're doing it so anyone online the world over is aware of it's capability.

This one is so dangerous that it targets Linux. It was designed by the Russian intelligence hub, GRU. I've heard that Linux is supposed to be safer than Windows because of something to do with their kernel if I'm not mistaken.

It's so dangerous that it can break directly into defense and national security systems. It's like a virtual Swiss army knife and one of the goals of the virus is to target the upcoming elections in the USA.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/s ... ing-linux/


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 Post subject: Re: NSA Discloses New Russian-made Drovorub Malware
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:13 pm 
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Windy wrote:
I was made aware of this on cable news. This is serious folks! So much so that the NSA has done something it rarely does, expose hacking tools of this kind. They're doing it so anyone online the world over is aware of it's capability.

This one is so dangerous that it targets Linux. It was designed by the Russian intelligence hub, GRU. I've heard that Linux is supposed to be safer than Windows because of something to do with their kernel if I'm not mistaken.

It's so dangerous that it can break directly into defense and national security systems. It's like a virtual Swiss army knife and one of the goals of the virus is to target the upcoming elections in the USA.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/s ... ing-linux/

Well, it's a tad alarmist really. AFAIK there are no current Linux Distros using any kernel older than 4, and 5 is fairly common also. I also haven't seen anything alarming in any of the Linux/-related forums that I use. Still, better to keep informed. But all my Linux installs are set up to update automatically (although of course requiring prior authentication (root) to actually download) so they're always right up to date.

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 Post subject: Re: NSA Discloses New Russian-made Drovorub Malware
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:00 pm 
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nexter wrote:
I also haven't seen anything alarming in any of the Linux/-related forums that I use.


I assume that because it just came out, it didn't yet reach the Linux forums. Maybe in a couple of days you'll start to see discussion about it.

I guess the Russians decided that if they could breach Linux, they can breach anything with ease using that malware. We'll see if they're able to wreak havoc with it. The one thing going against them is that their pernicious attack was outed. They lost the initiative once the covert nature of the attack was gone.


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 Post subject: Re: NSA Discloses New Russian-made Drovorub Malware
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:56 am 
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Windy wrote:
nexter wrote:
I also haven't seen anything alarming in any of the Linux/-related forums that I use.


I assume that because it just came out, it didn't yet reach the Linux forums. Maybe in a couple of days you'll start to see discussion about it.

I guess the Russians decided that if they could breach Linux, they can breach anything with ease using that malware. We'll see if they're able to wreak havoc with it. The one thing going against them is that their pernicious attack was outed. They lost the initiative once the covert nature of the attack was gone.

If needed, and I'd make that a pretty big if, we'd have countermeasures coming along in no time, probably days, under Linux. That's one of the great advantages of open source software - speed of reaction to any potential security risk and speed of development of countermeasures.

I don't bear the Russians any grudge for this BTW - I'm totally confident the US is doing exactly the same sort of thing. There is nothing underhand that I wouldn't put past US government and its institutions, esp. the likes of NSA, CIA, et al. 'The Evil Empire' - the US is it and has been for a long while, it's the modern day Rome, just worse. (At least Rome didn't commit wholesale genocide and wasn't racist.) Nothing personal or against the people of the US generally intended.

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 Post subject: Re: NSA Discloses New Russian-made Drovorub Malware
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:52 pm 
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nexter wrote:
I don't bear the Russians any grudge for this BTW - I'm totally confident the US is doing exactly the same sort of thing. There is nothing underhand that I wouldn't put past US government and its institutions, esp. the likes of NSA, CIA, et al. 'The Evil Empire'


Espionage is one thing, just about all nations do that. However, compromising the devices of civilians in this way is out of bounds and why many are sounding the alarm.

nexter wrote:
...the US is it and has been for a long while, it's the modern day Rome, just worse. (At least Rome didn't commit wholesale genocide and wasn't racist.) Nothing personal or against the people of the US generally intended.


As far as the Romans, I do know a little about Roman history. As far as I remember, they did commit genocide in Carthage, Africa.


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 Post subject: Re: NSA Discloses New Russian-made Drovorub Malware
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:31 am 
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Windy wrote:
nexter wrote:
I don't bear the Russians any grudge for this BTW - I'm totally confident the US is doing exactly the same sort of thing. There is nothing underhand that I wouldn't put past US government and its institutions, esp. the likes of NSA, CIA, et al. 'The Evil Empire'


Espionage is one thing, just about all nations do that. However, compromising the devices of civilians in this way is out of bounds and why many are sounding the alarm.

And you think the US (and other western states) don't do the same thing? Besides, the most likely real target wasn't 'civilians' but the corporate, military, and other government sectors. Bear in mind that Linux is huge in those.

Windy wrote:
nexter wrote:
...the US is it and has been for a long while, it's the modern day Rome, just worse. (At least Rome didn't commit wholesale genocide and wasn't racist.) Nothing personal or against the people of the US generally intended.


As far as the Romans, I do know a little about Roman history. As far as I remember, they did commit genocide in Carthage, Africa.

Carthage was a massacre, but hardly a genocide. 40 million First Nation Americans killed, now that's the biggest, worst holocaust so far. An experiment in how efficiently civilians could be killed in a future genocide was Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the most heinous war crime and crime against humanity yet. There is absolutely nothing to which the US state wouldn't stoop. Malware, even if affecting or even targeting civilians, would come as easy as taking sweets from a child.

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 Post subject: Re: NSA Discloses New Russian-made Drovorub Malware
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:20 pm 
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I didn't respond earlier because I've been extremely busy the past couple of days.

nexter wrote:
And you think the US (and other western states) don't do the same thing? Besides, the most likely real target wasn't 'civilians' but the corporate, military, and other government sectors. Bear in mind that Linux is huge in those.


From my understanding civilians were just as much a target. If I thought otherwise, I wouldn’t bother to post it unless I chose to make the topic about Russian espionage.

nexter wrote:
Carthage was a massacre, but hardly a genocide.


What happened in Carthage, Africa is officially classified as genocide, not a massacre.

nexter wrote:
40 million First Nation Americans killed, now that's the biggest, worst holocaust so far. An experiment in how efficiently civilians could be killed in a future genocide was Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the most heinous war crime and crime against humanity yet. There is absolutely nothing to which the US state wouldn't stoop. Malware, even if affecting or even targeting civilians, would come as easy as taking sweets from a child.


I’m well versed in American History, African American history and WWII history. As far as Native Americans, I don’t know where you get those numbers. The largest confirmed estimate of genocide in history was about 6,000,000 Jews, and possibly more than double that of Soviets (which includes Jews) by Nazi Germany in WWII.

The only official genocide of Native Americans I’m aware of ranged from around the mid 1840’s to the mid 1870’s is in California of an estimated 120,000, and that wasn’t only done by American settlers. Mexicans and Spaniards were also part of perpetrating that genocide.

As far as Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that wasn’t genocide. That was a normal part of how war was conducted. In fact, thousands, if not millions of lives (on both sides) were saved by dropping the bombs. If I go by what I see as your definition of genocide, the Japanese were the ones committing genocide by what they did to the Chinese during WWII.


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 Post subject: Re: NSA Discloses New Russian-made Drovorub Malware
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:38 pm 
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Location: UK
Windy wrote:
I didn't respond earlier because I've been extremely busy the past couple of days.

My turn - sorry for late reply but have been almost totally laid up for most of the past week or so and at the same time been trying to sort out a whole load of cans of worms, in a manner of speaking.

Windy wrote:
nexter wrote:
And you think the US (and other western states) don't do the same thing? Besides, the most likely real target wasn't 'civilians' but the corporate, military, and other government sectors. Bear in mind that Linux is huge in those.


From my understanding civilians were just as much a target. If I thought otherwise, I wouldn’t bother to post it unless I chose to make the topic about Russian espionage.

LOL! Windy, how many 'civilians' do you think there are that are using antiquated versions of Linux? The 3.x kernel is, for all intents and purposes, long dead - at a rough guess, I'd reckon some 90% of 'civilian'/private Linux users are using distros based on kernels of versions 4.x and 5.x, and it is very doubtful that malware specifically aimed at 3.x would get past 4.x and beyond. However, a tiny minority of ppl running antiquated X86 hardware (i.e., 32-bit) may well be using an old 386 distro based on the 3.x kernel, and there probably is a good bit of such old hardware and 3.x kernel Linux around in various govt. organisations and even corporations and other commercial organisations.

Windy wrote:
nexter wrote:
Carthage was a massacre, but hardly a genocide.


What happened in Carthage, Africa is officially classified as genocide, not a massacre.

What's 'officially classified as' something isn't necessarily what it is in reality. In all and any cases. This merely tells the narrative as it suits those in power at the time of 'classification' and/or beyond.

Windy wrote:
nexter wrote:
40 million First Nation Americans killed, now that's the biggest, worst holocaust so far. An experiment in how efficiently civilians could be killed in a future genocide was Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the most heinous war crime and crime against humanity yet. There is absolutely nothing to which the US state wouldn't stoop. Malware, even if affecting or even targeting civilians, would come as easy as taking sweets from a child.


I’m well versed in American History, African American history and WWII history. As far as Native Americans, I don’t know where you get those numbers. The largest confirmed estimate of genocide in history was about 6,000,000 Jews, and possibly more than double that of Soviets (which includes Jews) by Nazi Germany in WWII.

The only official genocide of Native Americans I’m aware of ranged from around the mid 1840’s to the mid 1870’s is in California of an estimated 120,000, and that wasn’t only done by American settlers. Mexicans and Spaniards were also part of perpetrating that genocide.


The number of 40,000,000 First Nation Americans massacred by - illegal, one might add - white occupiers of what is now the US and Canada is a consensus figure agreed by most anthropologists and historians and is in part based on the number of tribes that lived in that area prior to the arrival of Europeans, and the typical, average population size of tribal groups. It is actually a very conservative estimate. American history as written by white US Americans may well tell you something else entirely, but like almost all American history written by white US Americans it is a complete and utter fiction. The great marches whereby whole groups of tribes were forcibly evicted from their lands by white US Americans in the latter part of the 19th c. C.E. and forced onto 'reservations' alone killed whole tribes and hundreds of thousands. And as far as Mexicans and Spaniards are concerned, their part in any of it was a very minor one overall. Hell, in the last quarter of the 19th c. especially, white US Americans/occupiers used to go out in hunting parties and shot 1st Nation Americans by the hundreds and thousands because there were not enough buffalo left to kill! Of course, in what is now Canada it was largely French and British troops who were initially responsible, followed on by the 'settlers'/occupiers, but the numbers of 1st Nation Americans killed there was comparatively much smaller than in the US. Overall, it still ranks as the largest Holocaust in known history.

As for the so-called Nazi holocaust - and bear in mind please that I personally had family members affected there - that still awaits proper historical discourse and examination of the true facts. Heck, you only have to look at the immigration figures of eastern European Jews into the US alone during the 1930s to realise that the figure of 6 million cannot be accurate when the whole Jewish population of central and eastern Europe was estimated at about 6 million at the time. There is something decidedly wrong with that whole rotten narrative. It also completely ignores the fact that at the time of the Nazi Holocaust - i.e., app. 1940-45, Europe, in particular Germany and much of central and eastern Europe, was being ravaged by a vicious typhus epidemic that killed millions. Alas, we'll have to await more enlightened times for the whole saga to be examined properly.

Windy wrote:
As far as Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that wasn’t genocide. That was a normal part of how war was conducted. In fact, thousands, if not millions of lives (on both sides) were saved by dropping the bombs. If I go by what I see as your definition of genocide, the Japanese were the ones committing genocide by what they did to the Chinese during WWII.

I never said Hiroshima and Nagasaki were genocide. What I did say was - and is - that it was an experiment in how efficiently civilians could be killed in a future genocide and that was the most heinous war crime and crime against humanity yet. And by that opinion I stand, as I do by all my opinions. It most certainly was not
Quote:
a normal part of how war was conducted
- it was an event without any precedent in the first place! And whether it saved any lives is very dubious indeed when it killed around 300,000 instantly and thousands more in the aftermath for decades to come, and when Japan would have surrendered within days anyway! Perhaps it saved the lives of a few US troops, in which case one has to ask - as so often - are US American lives then more valuable than anyone else's lives? (I'm fairly sure you're not one of those gung-ho WASP yanks who'd subscribe to that Windy, so that latter bit is a purely rhetorical question and not meant personally.) No, the use of the bombs was purely a matter of wanting to find out what effect they had in a real use situation and how radiation affected people, pure and simple. Not even countries as mad as Israel, India and Pakistan (as the most likely 'hotspots' to do so) have so far resorted to the use of nuclear weapons. The US stands alone in that hideous, heinous crime.

And a government system that is capable of that is capable of anything. And who really knows how much malware, produced by such a government and its agencies, there really is in everybody's systems already? Personally, I trust no government, but least of all 'Uncle Sam'.

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 Post subject: Re: NSA Discloses New Russian-made Drovorub Malware
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:12 pm 
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nexter wrote:
What's 'officially classified as' something isn't necessarily what it is in reality. In all and any cases. This merely tells the narrative as it suits those in power at the time of 'classification' and/or beyond.


Much time has passed since the genocide at Carthage, Africa so the classification isn't by those in power at the time. Historians from varying backgrounds have studied it and registered it as such.


nexter wrote:
The number of 40,000,000 First Nation Americans massacred by - illegal, one might add - white occupiers of what is now the US and Canada is a consensus figure agreed by most anthropologists and historians and is in part based on the number of tribes that lived in that area prior to the arrival of Europeans, and the typical, average population size of tribal groups. It is actually a very conservative estimate. American history as written by white US Americans may well tell you something else entirely, but like almost all American history written by white US Americans it is a complete and utter fiction. The great marches whereby whole groups of tribes were forcibly evicted from their lands by white US Americans in the latter part of the 19th c. C.E. and forced onto 'reservations' alone killed whole tribes and hundreds of thousands. And as far as Mexicans and Spaniards are concerned, their part in any of it was a very minor one overall. Hell, in the last quarter of the 19th c. especially, white US Americans/occupiers used to go out in hunting parties and shot 1st Nation Americans by the hundreds and thousands because there were not enough buffalo left to kill! Of course, in what is now Canada it was largely French and British troops who were initially responsible, followed on by the 'settlers'/occupiers, but the numbers of 1st Nation Americans killed there was comparatively much smaller than in the US. Overall, it still ranks as the largest Holocaust in known history.


It's apparent that you're not refining your allegation to American settlers only. Canadians, Mexicans and Spaniards were responsible for a lot of the deaths of Native Americans. A genocide is restricted to a relatively short period of time. Typically within 10 years, not a span of decades as you've done.

nexter wrote:
As for the so-called Nazi holocaust - and bear in mind please that I personally had family members affected there - that still awaits proper historical discourse and examination of the true facts. Heck, you only have to look at the immigration figures of eastern European Jews into the US alone during the 1930s to realise that the figure of 6 million cannot be accurate when the whole Jewish population of central and eastern Europe was estimated at about 6 million at the time. There is something decidedly wrong with that whole rotten narrative. It also completely ignores the fact that at the time of the Nazi Holocaust - i.e., app. 1940-45, Europe, in particular Germany and much of central and eastern Europe, was being ravaged by a vicious typhus epidemic that killed millions. Alas, we'll have to await more enlightened times for the whole saga to be examined properly.


Huh? The low estimate is 5,750,000 Jews killed. Hitler had Jews exterminated everywhere the Nazis occupied.

nexter wrote:
I never said Hiroshima and Nagasaki were genocide. What I did say was - and is - that it was an experiment in how efficiently civilians could be killed in a future genocide and that was the most heinous war crime and crime against humanity yet. And by that opinion I stand, as I do by all my opinions. It most certainly was not
Quote:
a normal part of how war was conducted
- it was an event without any precedent in the first place! And whether it saved any lives is very dubious indeed when it killed around 300,000 instantly and thousands more in the aftermath for decades to come, and when Japan would have surrendered within days anyway! Perhaps it saved the lives of a few US troops, in which case one has to ask - as so often - are US American lives then more valuable than anyone else's lives? (I'm fairly sure you're not one of those gung-ho WASP yanks who'd subscribe to that Windy, so that latter bit is a purely rhetorical question and not meant personally.) No, the use of the bombs was purely a matter of wanting to find out what effect they had in a real use situation and how radiation affected people, pure and simple. Not even countries as mad as Israel, India and Pakistan (as the most likely 'hotspots' to do so) have so far resorted to the use of nuclear weapons. The US stands alone in that hideous, heinous crime.


You have to look at the context of what was going on in WWII. America was pissed about Pearl Harbor and the Japanese were in some ways more ruthless than the Nazis. They didn't believe in surrender, had no respect for POW's unlike Germany (who for the most part did for American, British & other allied soldiers with the exception of Russians) and like Germany murdered many people due to their ethnicity. There was the Bataan Death March, and a host of other atrocities committed against American soldiers by the Japanese.

Towards the end of the war, it was obvious that Japan had no chance of winning the war but continued to fight simply to kill as many Americans as possible. They started doing targeted kamikaze attacks instead of spontaneous ones, fought to the death on many islands in the Pacific and when cornered, they committed suicide instead of surrendering. As I said earlier, they did not believe in surrendering. It was relatively rare to capture a Japanese soldier.

Americans were trying to end the war of a country hellbent on not surrendering under any circumstance. They firebombed Tokyo killing between 80,000 and 130,000 civilians which is more than the amount killed in Hiroshima (80,00) and Nagasaki (40,00) notwithstanding the effects of radiation later.

The mere fact that after all the losses on the various islands, their Navy and Air Force basically wiped out, the firebombing of Tokyo and the nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima, the Japanese still refused to surrender!

It wasn't until they bombed Nagasaki and the Russians reneged on their Neutrality Pact with Japan and invaded Manchuria that they decided to surrender. Besides finally realizing that resistance is futile, they were also terrified of Russia. They knew that they would have ended up like Germany after the war ended.

So, I'm not so sure that finding out about the effects of radiation was the reason the nuclear bombs were dropped.

nexter wrote:
And a government system that is capable of that is capable of anything. And who really knows how much malware, produced by such a government and its agencies, there really is in everybody's systems already? Personally, I trust no government, but least of all 'Uncle Sam'.


The U.S. government is the worst?!! :shock: What about North Korea, Russia and the number 1 worst, China? North Korea and China are total scum that are committing human rights violations everyday and all three lead the world in hacking and malware.


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