LOLOL! What, Bill G., the 'Spawn of Satan', the 'Devil Incarnate', root of all evil, etc. etc. ad infinitum? Well, let's bear in mind that Mr. G. was - at least in large part - responsible for dreaming up such horrendous monstrosities as the IoT and a few others.... But then again, to his credit, Windows in the 90s practically becoming the only viable OS for Joe Bloggs did PC users a huge favour - developers didn't have to port for half a dozen OSes and so prices came tumbling down, although that has now long back-fired by creating a few massive monopolies that squeeze consumer's balls till they're dry. (Fortunately, we do have viable alternatives in a variety of free Linux OSes and a plethora of - mainly - FOSS apps that - mostly - don't cost a penny!)

But, yeah, hey why not, let's have a 'Bring Back Bill' campaign! Make him steer Windows into more sensible, useable directions with less shite. OTOH, we have to bear in mind that Windows per se is no longer a huge revenue earner for MS. They're practically giving that crap away for free. Consequently, they are not interested in the slightest in spending large amounts of dosh on Windblows.

So, rather than distracting Bill from his philanthropic activities, why doesn't everybody just go over to Linux!? I did, at least as my principal OS for 90+% of my computing needs, and the need for Windows is steadily dwindling even for me. I fully expect that within the next 3-5 years I'd only be using Windblows to run up Winstep for the hell of it and for testing. (And I can even compile and create Xtreme themes completely under Linux. No problemo. ))

yea, i know Bill wasn't great, but he was keeping some sense of direction in windows/MS,
like it or not ms is more user frienly to set up than linx, for the average computer iliterate joe. ANd while its enough user friendly that the same joe coulduse it if someone set it up for him, its just different enough to confuse him.

and remember, that average joe doesn't know the meaning of jusr fing google it

ad to that, that even though lot of software is multi-platform, as much of it, if not more, still isn't, and the joe cant find alternatives, due thinking google is just for porn

i mean, i worked in tech support call center for local isp. when fb or google went down people thought internet was down and we wer flooded in calls.

so yea, windblows isn't going anywhere yet

Old Bill wasn't bad really, certainly things were going much more positively under his stewardship generally, and I certainly don't hold any personal animosity against him myself. (Never really understood the sort of 'hate Bill G' mentality.)

However, I do have to take issue with your statement that MS/Windblows is more user friendly than Linux. This is patent nonsense and a left-over myth from the - fairly distant - past, the bad old days when Linux was more of a developer tool than anything else. Those days are long gone. When it comes to setting up an OS, there simply is no greater nightmare for the average Joe than Windows. Thus, he never does set it up properly and as (relatively) securely as could be. He just lets MS do it all for him and leaves himself open to all sorts of mischief and crap. Setting up Windows comprehensively and properly can take several days! (The devil, as ever, really is in the detail and minutiae!)

By comparison, take *any* major Linux distro, such as Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, Mint, OpenSuSe, to name a few, and they really could not be simpler to set up. Here, you actually can if you so wish let the installer do everything for you and it will even install all the most commonly used apps as well! The whole thing can be over in an hour or so, and Joe Bloggs is pretty much ready to start using his device. There are plenty of analogues to Windows apps, often actually far better and far more user friendly, save but a very few more specialised apps that might be used professionally. Just a very few like that still have me needing Windblows sometimes, alas, but even there new apps are popping up all the time and keep reducing my need for Win. Finding apps not already installed also could not be simpler generally. Linux distros have easy to use apps that come with the OS that will let you download thousands of them, without the need for a search engine or anything else, and they'll always be installed automatically. You'd have to be brain-dead not to be able to easily use the system tools to find what you want.

All in all, there really is no reason whatsoever why Joe Bloggs shouldn't or couldn't use Linux, other than ignorance of its existence.

sorry for the late reply, as i didn't notice you moved this.

i think you are wrong, windblows is much more widespread among Joe and his compatriots, and therefore much more familiar, and easier to (seemingly) set up and use.

afaik schools mostly use ms products , and therefore Joes kids are also more exposed to ms environment than linux, which although simpler than before is still different enough to be confusing to people who have experienced only MS

you overestimate the average computer user

then there are above average users, who are simply in too deep in ms to put in time and energy to get so deep knowledge of linux as they have of windblows.

i have tried a couple of linux distros, and while they are relatively easy to set up, it still requires you to be willing to google and read up some things, which Joe, his friends and kids have no reason to do.

and when you do set it up, there is enough differences in usage, however minute, that the one of Jose friends who does try it ot says f**k it and goes back to what he and everyone else knows

I far from overestimate the average computer user. I know from very long experience that the average computer user is absolutely clueless - especially those using Windows and macOS. Thick as two planks comes to mind, at any rate where using their computers is concerned.

And you couldn't be more wrong as regards the rest of your post, sorry seeker. Setting up Windows is something most users couldn't even do themselves! And generally, they don't have to - they buy their box/laptop with Win pre-installed and use it as it comes out of the box. Usually, they are not even aware that they have to configure Win (or their apps), and so sooner or later they run into problems. (And the vast majority are not even remotely aware that there are alternative OSes.) And this is the very reason why so far Windows is the most dominant OS among the average Joes, although at least in small part the Linux movement must bear some blame too - there are simply far too many Linux distros and far too many - albeit broadly similar - Desktop Environments rather than one unitary one, as Messrs Torvalds and Shuttleworth respectively stated themselves a couple or so years ago.

With Linux, OTOH, you just select 'Install' and let the thing run, and a short time later you're good to go with the OS as well as all the apps the average Joe could ever need. Simplicity itself. And never ever any need to resort to a search engine for reading up on anything. That certainly has been my experience with every Linux distro that I've tried in relatively recent times, including even a couple of Arch derived ones. And I have to confess that after my experiences with Linux in the mid-1990s I was for a long time rather sceptical that Linux could ever become a viable desktop alternative.

The majority of Linux Desktop Environments are so Windblows-like the average user would hardly notice the difference. Simplicity itself, again. (Granted, a few are very Mac-like.) In fact, that is one of my biggest criticisms of Linux distros, that they all broadly follow Win, instead of doing something innovative and original.

There are other factors that very much favour Linux. One is, every major distro that I have used/use (as well as the apps) is considerably lower on resource usage. Another is, Linux is very much faster than Windblows on identical hardware/spec, and will run remarkably fast even on older hardware that can't even run anything beyond Win 7.

To come back to ease of set up and use, if your scenario really were true, explain to me how about 10 friends and acquaintances including two octogenarians - all perfectly typical, average computer users - were persuaded after just a brief chat to look at some distros and select one, set it all up by themselves and very soon completely ditched Win very happily. Speaks volumes in itself. And although I may be something of a Linux evangelist, it's hardly through my efforts that user numbers do in fact keep rising steadily if somewhat slowly still, as does the number of desktop and laptop makers who offer systems with Linux (most often Ubuntu) pre-installed. Further than that, there are even a number of Linux phones already, albeit not yet suitable for the typical 'smartphone' user and pretty much to be considered beta projects.

maybe i tried wrong distros then, because in the few cases i did go and install linux (on raspberry and on virtual machines) i did have to google few how-tos to get them up and running.

and there were a few glaring differences in usage, one that comes to mind is making shortcuts, that think would put off anyone who is trying linux without guidance.

as for speed/performance/resources, afaik even though situation is better than before, and is getting better year by year, not all games (gamers being a big part of population that cares about resources today, other being professionals in one field or the other) are playable out of the box on linux yet

and yes, i know the average Joe cant install windblows himself (i worked as ISP tech support and had some calls concerning installation, in addition to freelancing as computer help guy), but his son or nephew is more likely to know and be willing to install them for him than linux

Ah, well, you can never comparatively judge installing any OS in a VM to installing it on real hardware, which is what I thought we were discussing here. Totally different kettle of fish. As for Raspberry, granted, that's another matter altogether and can be somewhat tricky apparently. However, the grandson of a friend didn't seem to have too many problems getting a (non-GUI) Linux Terminal going, little sod, and went onto setting up coding from there.... Bloody kids!

Some of the easiest Linux distros to set up even in a VM under Windows are Mint, Ubuntu, Ubuntu Mate, Fedora, and Debian. They also seem to be among the best supported under Virtual Box. When running Win 10, I always used to have Ubuntu 20.04.4 LTS running in a VM and running any Internet stuff from there, plus other things. That's going back on next (still setting up stuff under Win), just have to set it up and then re-import the Ubuntu VM and that's ready to run then.

As for shortcuts/links - dead easy, though only needed to create one once, under Fedora. Generally, there really is no need for users to create any under Linux. Normally, you certainly wouldn't really want any e.g. on the desktop and keep it clear of clutter.

Regarding resource usage and speed performance, games never really come to mind here. I just consider them a waste of good leisure time that could be used more wisely, like spending time with friends and family and having interesting conversations, discussions, or even the odd debate (I mean the latter in its proper sense of thesis - antithesis - synthesis), or whatever. The real world and living life's the thing! No, I'm talking serious apps, such as very high definition GFX and photography, 3-D GFX and animation, CAD/CAM, HQ audio recording/editing/mixing/mastering (Linux is pretty commonly used in recording studios BTW), and more. Linux outperforms Windblows every time, and there are times that bit extra can and does become important.

It's a rather big, unsubstantiable assertion to say that Joe Bloggs' son or nephew would be more like to know and be willing to install Windows for him than Linux. We simply have no way of knowing or ascertaining that. Personally, I'm inclined to give young people a bit more credit than their elders where computing is concerned and would at the least give them the benefit of the doubt.

oh, i was two seminars and a thesis short form masters to be an IT teacher.

Granted, while today's wizkids can blow the wizkidz of old out of the water in some cases, general populace, ie Joe Blogss nephew is handy with technology only in aspects that interest them, and that boils down to clicking buttons, weather they are 'likes' on social media, or controls in some games.

While they are more used to technology, its only in the form of consuming it, and are as iliterate as their uncle Joe.

Granted my experence is some 5-10 years oudated, and comes from small pool of personal experience and not proper research.

Sadly, for the most part I have to agree seeker. But not all the Joes' kids are quite like that, I'm sure. I've certainly come across a few bright sparks not totally obsessed with (anti-) social media and games who outshine their elders by lightyears.