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 Post subject: FireFox v29
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:35 am 
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i can guarantee you that you will come to hate firefox because of the new australis engine. this is but the first step in removing all customization from firefox, so goodbye firefox and hello mozilla chrome. i strongly suggest cyberfox.

https://8pecxstudios.com/Forums/index.php

https://8pecxstudios.com/cyberfox-web-browser

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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29 covering Nexus
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 3:44 pm 
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As much as I hate Australis and all the crap that Mozilla decided (again) to change, the fact that Cyberfox decided to use different profiles pretty much broke the deal for me.
I don't know about everyone else, but as far as I'm concerned, I only wanted a 64-bit version of Firefox, so I could use all my settings, add-ons and everything else, without changing anything.
In fact, my main browser has been Waterfox, which is an even faster 64-bit build of the Firefox code (using the Intel C/C++ compiler). Due to my usage habits, I'm usually running Waterfox and Cyberfox simultaneously, obviously using different profiles but still side by side. Often, for reasons that need not be addressed here, I'll be using these profiles interchangeably and also with the vanilla (32-bit) Firefox.

Now that Cyberfox decided to depart from that practice, that only means that slowly but surely, it's going to die (unless something changes) or remain a niche browser with a small following. As Mozilla keeps developing Firefox around that Australis premise, add-ons will keep up, which means that in time, fewer and fewer of Firefox's add-ons will be compatible with Cyberfox.
Add to that the fact that the *real* reason people were using Cyberfox was that it was a Firefox drop-in replacement. Now that you have to 'convert' Firefox's profiles to be used in Cyberfox, I have a feeling not a lot of people are going to follow, except the already converted. And to make things worse, I don't think the reverse is even possible -- i.e. somehow 'converting' a Cyberfox profile to be used in Firefox.

All in all, Firefox probably made a bad decision with Australis, yes. But Cyberfox made an even worse decision by going 'solo'.
People didn't want yet another Firefox spin-off that nobody uses. They were fine with a true 64-bit "mirror image" of Firefox.
Already, there are add-ons out there that revert the cosmetic changes Australis made to the UI, back to its 'normal' state.
Why would anyone abandon the second (or third) most popular browser out there, is beyond me.


P.S. Chucky, did you mean "Google Chrome"?

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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29 covering Nexus
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:29 pm 
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if you'd bother to keep up with toady's forum you would know the migration is no big deal. there is a program for migrating everything from the old profile to the new one(which i personally knows works, cause i've already done mine), that installing new themes or other addons work just fine on the new profile, and for backup of the new profile we will be getting a tool similar to mozback.

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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29 covering Nexus
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:35 pm 
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Chucky, sometimes I feel I'm talking to myself.
I already know about the "migration" tool. But if *you* bothered to read what I wrote, I don't want to migrate at all, simply because I'm using Firefox, Waterfox and Cyberfox arbitrarily, so I *need* all my profiles to be interchangeable.
Even more, there's currently no way back and no guarantee that the profiles of Firefox and Cyberfox will be even *possible* to be 'migrated' now, let alone after a few versions of Firefox. And I most definitely do *not* have the time nor the inclination to start using some "migrating" programme, every time I need to switch browsers, even *if* migration were possible.

As for add-ons... yes, they're working now, because Australis has just been released 7 days ago. Try it in a few months, when Firefox will be at version, say, 32, and most add-ons will have been 'fixed' to work on Australis, and we'll see how 'compatible' Cyberfox will be then.
When you 'fork' a piece of code, with every new version of either, the differences will only increase, until you reach a point when the two are completely incompatible.

Or how easy it will be for the Cyberfox programmers to keep using the Firefox code...

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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29 covering Nexus
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:45 pm 
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firefox addons are designed to look for the default profile folder regardless of what it is named. in other words i can name mine TheNudeDude123xyz and the addon being installed will still find and install into that profile folder, so it won't matter if we hit firefox and cyberfox versions 50 with different default profile folder names. unless addon creators start adding code to make their addons only work with the australis engine there should never be a problem with cyberfox and addons, and i honestly do not see the addon makers doing that.

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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29 covering Nexus
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 2:20 pm 
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ChuckysChild wrote:
firefox addons are designed to look for the default profile folder regardless of what it is named. in other words i can name mine TheNudeDude123xyz and the addon being installed will still find and install into that profile folder, so it won't matter if we hit firefox and cyberfox versions 50 with different default profile folder names. unless addon creators start adding code to make their addons only work with the australis engine there should never be a problem with cyberfox and addons, and i honestly do not see the addon makers doing that.

Chucky, again, it feels you're not even reading what I'm writing.

I want to be able to use Firefox, Waterfox and Cyberfox at the same time, using the same profiles, interchangeably.

Having Cyberfox use a different, incompatible, profile at a completely different location, actually prohibits any interchangeability.
I don't want a *different* browser, I just want a 64-bit version of Firefox.

As for the add-ons, the Australis code *is* different, the Australis UI *is* different and subsequently, the add-ons made (or updated) to work under Australis *will* be incompatible with the old UI. With each new version, the differences between the old UI and the contemporary Firefox UI (in other words, the evolution of Australis) will only grow bigger and more significant. Eventually, the add-ons just won't work, in exactly the same way that add-ons for Firefox 3 stopped working for Firefox 4 and later. After Firefox 7 or 8, only a fraction of add-ons made for Firefox 3 still worked.

It's not a matter of *where* the profiles are stored and whether the add-on can 'find' the different location under Cyberfox, but that the Firefox add-ons will be made for a specific code and underlying infrastructure, that won't exist in Cyberfox.

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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:29 pm 
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For the record, Chucky, I did go to "toady"'s forum and posted pretty much what I've posted in here, in a very nice way. I felt it was only fair that I did, since I've written things here and in the Waterfox forum. But also would provide a different point of view, since *every* post in the forum is "fanboy-style", all praising and exulting his decisions.
Guess what: your favourite 'dictator' did exactly what I do to people posting "uk vance miller is a spammer" in here!
Right, I got banned and, obviously, my first and only post in there never appeared.

It looks as though "toady" has a different agenda for "Cyberfox", which apparently lines up with his decision to 'fork'. I won't be surprised if he starts charging users, or putting advertisements or bloatware in the installer. He's already done it once, in the past; I don't see why he wouldn't do it again.
Once the Cyberfox profiles get too incompatible to be ported back to Firefox, expect some surprises...

As for me... Cyberfox is history. I will not use software from people who reap the fruits of open-source and freedom of speech, but when that openness and freedom applies to themselves, they will have none of it.

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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:08 pm 
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actually there was a adblock glitch in one of their updates that effected all versions of firefox. i'll give adblock credit they got it fixed extremely fast. as for bloatware what makes the browser fat is the addons. mine is a good example. i use mozback and there is almost 2 gigs of backups, of which at least 95% is from my addons. i wouldn't care which engine mozilla plans on using if they weren't working towards making most addons incompatible. i like the rounded tabs, it's something new and fresh, but it's not worth having my theme broken. we are not going to see eye on this so you have your opinion, and i'll have mine.

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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 6:12 pm 
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Indeed.
I just don't see how a small programmer with an *incompatible* browser can do anything much, other than limit himself to a niche audience, like PaleMoon.

Any comment on the fact that I got banned for expressing an opposing view?

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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:21 pm 
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Join the club.


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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 11:12 pm 
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skagon wrote:
Indeed.
I just don't see how a small programmer with an *incompatible* browser can do anything much, other than limit himself to a niche audience, like PaleMoon.

Any comment on the fact that I got banned for expressing an opposing view?


the only one i know of that got banned had about 1/2 a dozen post and both toady and i just started ignoring him

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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 11:29 am 
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Chucky: now you know another, and "he" didn't get to post *once*.

Greg: you got banned for being inflammatory and provocative and, by the looks of it, you won't be leaving that club any time soon, if you don't change your tune...

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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 11:44 am 
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skagon wrote:
Chucky: now you know another, and "he" didn't get to post *once*.

Greg: you got banned for being inflammatory and provocative and, by the looks of it, you won't be leaving that club any time soon, if you don't change your tune...


actually i'm betting the one and you are one and the same. i'll be blunt i'm with toady looks and sound like your pushing the version of firefox you happen to like, and the rest be damned. and before you ask yes i had him come and have a look at this thread. and one last note on having to hand configure firefoxes profile, NOT. once you use profile buddy to migrate firefoxes profile to the new profile location created by cyberfox the old profile is still there. this means if you install firefox after installing cyberfox and running profile buddy firefox will have all your settings, addons(at least the ones that work with the new engine), and themes(at least the ones that work with the new engine). let's just get on with pushing jorge into giving us the next version of winstep.

as for gregory just ban him already, cause i was just thinking before logging in that he's actually been quiet. then i see the first part of your post skagon. i don't know what he said this time, and i really don't care. like i told him before "your cohorts in crime aren't saying a word which means that they probably don't agree with your antics".

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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 12:46 pm 
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ChuckysChild wrote:
actually i'm betting the one and you are one and the same. i'll be blunt i'm with toady looks and sound like your pushing the version of firefox you happen to like, and the rest be damned. and before you ask yes i had him come and have a look at this thread. and one last note on having to hand configure firefoxes profile, NOT. once you use profile buddy to migrate firefoxes profile to the new profile location created by cyberfox the old profile is still there. this means if you install firefox after installing cyberfox and running profile buddy firefox will have all your settings, addons(at least the ones that work with the new engine), and themes(at least the ones that work with the new engine). let's just get on with pushing jorge into giving us the next version of winstep.

You would lose that bet, Chucky. I have never posted *once* in the Cyberfox forum. I only created my account yesterday (check my username) and made one post, which was never allowed to be posted. And got banned without any further explanation.
For the record, you can have "toady" check the IP addresses. You will find they're not the same and, in all probability, won't even be in the same country and possibly continent, with that "other one".
Obviously, I 'push' towards the version that I prefer. Isn't that what everyone does? You're providing arguments in favour of what *you* prefer, I in favour of what *I* prefer. That's what "freedom of speech" and "democracy" are all about. Each person supports their preferable way and whatever the majority wants, wins. I don't see how that is wrong, nor did I ever say "the rest be damned". In fact, I believe that "the rest" will be 'damned' if they follow the decisions of the 'one'.

The problem with the profiles isn't *how* it's 'copied', but the fact that it *is* copied. If I 'copy' my Firefox profile, then use Cyberfox and open a few new tabs, close a few old tabs, change settings, add and remove some add-ons, those changes will *not* propagate to the Firefox profile. If I then open Firefox, those changes won't exist; the profile will be in the state it was *before* I ran Cyberfox.
The *one* profile will have then become *two*, *independent*, profiles. And *that* is what I do not want.

I have to say, though, that I thoroughly enjoy our small 'debate' here. I think change comes from friendly debates, and it's very nice that we *can* have those debates, without censorship and, obviously, without fighting.
That is what "freedom of speech" and "democracy" are all about.
Even if, in the end, we agree to disagree. We both have won, gaining better insight on a different point of view.
:)

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 Post subject: Re: FireFox v29
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 1:25 pm 
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o.k. now please ban gregory permanently

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