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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:57 am 
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Vlad wrote:
Small bug, I think? When you use the Media Player icon, the right click option for changing playlist is doing nothing, if a song is playing or it is paused. After clicking stop, you can change the playlist as expected. When I say "as expected" I mean this how I expect things to work. Please tell me if I am wrong.


Fixed, thanks! :)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:22 pm 
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I wanted to make a quick maintenance release before the end of September but life here got so complicated for a while that it became impossible.

As discussed in the Beta section of the forums, the next release will probably also feature a long due price increase (prices have remained the same for the last 20 years, inflation has not).

An old idea I had talked about before was to use the Shelf as the basis for Winstep's own Stacks alternative (much the same way a Drawer is essentially a single tabbed Shelf - i.e.; code is shared between the two - with a few functional differences).

Now that support for multiple Shelves has been added to the applications, implementing such a thing would actually be relatively straightforward. Just like it happens with sub-docks, clicking on a 'Stacks' icon in the dock would open a temporary 'Shelf Stack' (essentially a single tab Shelf with multiple rows of icons visible at once). The popup animation would, of course, be something like the Shelf Stack 'popping out' of the icon, growing into place as it does so.

The added advantage of once again sharing code with the Shelf is twofold: first there is no need to create specific skins for the Shelf Stack since it would use the same skins as the Shelf (thus making it backward compatible with all themes from the start), second, because the Shelf supports multiple tab types, so would the Shelf Stack.

So, you could create a Shelf Stack where you would add your own icons normally like you do in a Regular Shelf tab, another that shows the contents of a folder in your hard drive, another that shows all Windows 10 Apps, etc...

For instance, the recently released Mojave version of MacOS has a new feature (Recent Applications) where the last 3 launched applications are shown in the dock. You could quickly accomplish basically the same thing using a Shelf Stack (with zero work on my part) by creating one of type 'Frequent Programs'. You would click an icon in the dock and Shelf Stack would open showing the most frequently used and recently launched applications.

I don't know about you guys, but personally I think this would be a quite exciting addition. Of course, visually the Winstep Stacks would look nothing like the original MacOSX Stacks, but in terms of functionality they would actually be vastly superior because of the different Stack types supported (and, of course, being really a single tabbed Shelf, all the existing Shelf mouseover, launch, etc, effects would also be supported on a Shelf Stack).

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:35 pm 
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Jorge, does that mean that now the new Shelf Stack will be able to do what I posted here? (Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:03 am) viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10791&start=15


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Windy wrote:
Jorge, does that mean that now the new Shelf Stack will be able to do what I posted here? (Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:03 am) viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10791&start=15


What? Show more than one row of icons by default? That's the idea.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:51 pm 
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Sounds awesome!
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:16 am 
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Sounds absolutely ghastly. Might as well just have multi-row drawers, simpler and more appropriate IMO. But I've said enough on that subject.

In any event, I thought the current upgrade was to be about "tieing up a few loose ends" such as improvements to the web site, and ThemeBuilder and NextSTART Taskbar improvements. Must be something wrong with my browser reading the thread. :p

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:33 am 
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I didn't say it was for THIS release. Just discussing the idea. :)

If you think about it, it makes all the sense in the world, Ric: you can already open sub-docks and menus from a dock (and even docks from NextSTART hotspots) - so why not a single tabbed multi-row Shelf as well? Even the MacOSX dock features Stacks, and this would basically be the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:17 am 
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I agree it makes sense. Too bad it's not in the next release. The sooner the better! :)


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:09 am 
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winstep wrote:
I didn't say it was for THIS release. Just discussing the idea. :)

Phew, that's a relief Jorge! I was beginning to worry you were becoming distracted from focusing on 'the plan'! ;)
winstep wrote:
If you think about it, it makes all the sense in the world, Ric: you can already open sub-docks and menus from a dock (and even docks from NextSTART hotspots) - so why not a single tabbed multi-row Shelf as well? Even the MacOSX dock features Stacks, and this would basically be the same thing.

Well yes, from that point of view, I agree. But to my somewhat purist way of looking at it, it's an abomination - a dock is meant to be nothing more than a simple graphic app launcher. Sub-docks are fine, they're quite a different kettle of fish and had been around on NeXT for quite some time. As for what the MacOS dock does - that's been a perversion of the dock idea from the start anyway. But that's just me.

Where I think this idea would make the most sense, for me anyway, would be if we could have it for launching from hotspots in the shelf itself and the QL of the taskbar. So how about it? In addition, I mean. 'Stacks' however is an awful term that really doesn't say anything much. How about something more descriptive like 'Tray', or, to avoid confusion with the systray (although MS have been moving away from using that term in favour of the more apt 'Notification Area'), 'Caddy' or 'Box'.

Oh, one more thing - couldn't it be tab-less? I mean, it's only meant to be a temporary thing that disappears on the next click if I understand it right, and a tab seems quite surplus to requirements.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:34 pm 
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nexter wrote:
Phew, that's a relief Jorge! I was beginning to worry you were becoming distracted from focusing on 'the plan'! ;)


Plans can change, and I haven't decided yet. Already missed my deadline so it doesn't matter much.

Plus, if I am to increase the prices on this release, it would probably be a good idea to offer some more 'meaty' new features. Also, Microsoft just began rolling out the Windows 10 October 2018 update and it's always a good idea to wait and see if any issues arise.

nexter wrote:
Where I think this idea would make the most sense, for me anyway, would be if we could have it for launching from hotspots in the shelf itself and the QL of the taskbar. So how about it?


Yes, the same way you can already add sub-docks to a Shelf and open docks from NextSTART hotspots/QL buttons. Basically it would be an icon which you can put anywhere, the ultimate in flexibility. :)

However, launching from NextSTART must be thought about carefully, i.e.; you can launch docks from NextSTART, but not sub-docks (and Stacks are like sub-docks, they will not appear listed in the Docks & Shelves tab in Preferences). As such they are automatically created when the parent icon is added to a dock, or whatever, and automatically destroyed when that icon is removed.

nexter wrote:
In addition, I mean. 'Stacks' however is an awful term that really doesn't say anything much.


I disagree, because it is a name users will recognize, although visually it won't work quite the same. There's also the alternative name 'Bins' lol

nexter wrote:
Oh, one more thing - couldn't it be tab-less? I mean, it's only meant to be a temporary thing that disappears on the next click if I understand it right, and a tab seems quite surplus to requirements.


The idea is to be able to use existing Shelf skins like I do for Drawers, and I can only do that if I keep the basic layout of a Shelf.

The tab can does hold the title, and as for the mini-tabs, I'll come up with some function for them (right mini-tab closes the Stack, left mini-tab open the Stacks's Properties dialog, or something like that)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:07 pm 
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Finally tracked down and fixed an issue that had been bugging me for a VERY long time! Very difficult to track down and diagnose, because it was not supposed to happen and it never happened in the IDE (development environment), only in the executable.

Normally you would only see this happen on the Drives tab in the Shelf, and only on some systems. As you opened the Drives tab, the icons would get replaced with question marks or you would get a question mark icon at the top left corner of the Shelf.

Like the UWP apps issue which you can read more about HERE (look it up if you want a more detailed explanation) this happened because the code got interrupted at a time it was not supposed to.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Jorge wrote:
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Microsoft just began rolling out the Windows 10 October 2018 update and it's always a good idea to wait and see if any issues arise.


Don't you mean what issues arise? :D 8)

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:11 pm 
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DanDaBear wrote:
Don't you mean what issues arise? :D 8)


LOL. Actually I've been pretty lucky after the initial release to make Winstep applications compatible with Windows 10.

Other than Windows Defender consistently flagging NextSTART as malware in Windows 10 for a month or so some time ago (guess Microsoft eventually saw the light on that one after a couple of false positive reports from me, the second using a bit stronger language), Winstep applications haven't faced any show stopping issues with the multiple Windows 10 updates.

Hmmm, I also remember some issues positioning the systray pop ups after some change Microsoft made to those, but that was eventually fixed too.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:40 pm 
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Which is why I switched from OD. Winstep has worked consistently through several different windows versions.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.8?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:03 pm 
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DanDaBear wrote:
Which is why I switched from OD. Winstep has worked consistently through several different windows versions.


With this latest OD Weather feed SNAFU, more and more hardcore OD users seem to be finally giving up on OD and switching to Nexus too.

I was surprised it took this long for someone in the WC forums to actually figure out what had happened: SD simply decided it no longer made financial sense to keep paying for OD's Accuweather feed.

With OD no longer in active development - because its developer is now working for another company - and costing just $4.95 a pop, it's as close to abandonware as it will ever be.

Given that a lot of those hardcore OD users are also skinners, now is the perfect window of opportunity to finish that damn Winstep Theme Builder.

Yeah, I know.

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