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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:32 am 
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toniostarcevic wrote:
So when changing my monitor config as usually (with primary swap), it doesn't work. All docks & shelves move to one screen. The reason why I didn't notice it before changing the primary monitor, is because I don't do it manually - I have a program to manage monitor profiles.


Well, perhaps that is the problem?

But let me get this straight, are you changing the primary monitor manually now or is it still automatic via the 3rd party application?

Also, what exactly is the sequence of events?

One thing weird I noticed after taking a look at the monitor profile files:

There is a config where the 2560x1440 monitor is at (0,0) and the 1920x1080 monitor is at (2560,0) but then there is another profile where everything is the same except the 1920x1080 is now at (2560,188) instead (i.e.; 188 pixels lower).

Likewise, a third profile exists where the 1920x1080 monitor is at (0,0) while the 2560x1440 is at (-2560,-188) - notice the minus signs.

There are also two *single monitor* profiles for the 1920x1080 at (0,0) and the 2560x1440 at (0,0). This is weird, it's like each of the two monitors becomes part of a *single* monitor system in turn, at least for a little while.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:46 am 
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winstep wrote:
Chuck wrote:
Unfortunately, flying and can't reach laptop to work it any time soon.


Fly, I wanna fly
Its been a long long time
Im waiting for you at night
Fly, I wanna fly
Its been a long long time
Im burning for you at night
High, I wanna get high
You know babe
Were gonna make it higher tonight

Lalalaal lala - Machiavel, for those who don't recognize the lyrics :)

Uhhh.... - who/what is Machiavel? :P

Doesn't anyone listen to seriously good music anymore, say soulful, 'saudade' stuff like Fado? E.g., there's a seriously good, even brill, pork-n-cheese male Fado artist, Rodrigo Costa Félix. Floats my boat, but alas, his cd sales are not what they deserve to be. :(

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:34 pm 
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winstep wrote:
toniostarcevic wrote:
So when changing my monitor config as usually (with primary swap), it doesn't work. All docks & shelves move to one screen. The reason why I didn't notice it before changing the primary monitor, is because I don't do it manually - I have a program to manage monitor profiles.


Well, perhaps that is the problem?

But let me get this straight, are you changing the primary monitor manually now or is it still automatic via the 3rd party application?


After realizing that the primary change is the problem, I did all further tests manually.

winstep wrote:
Also, what exactly is the sequence of events?


Some infos first - my main monitor is a 1920x1080 Samsung TV. The secondary monitor is a Acer touch screen monitor with 2560x1440. In Winstep, my main monitor (TV) is named "monitor 2" and the Acer touch screen is named "monitor 1".

The steps I did: (without the third party program)
1. Set to single monitor (monitor 2, TV) and deleted the duplicated docks and shelves, to start from scratch.
2. Clicked apply and closed settings.
3. Activated second monitor (monitor 1, Acer).
4. Opened Winstep settings, duplicated everything and set it to the proper positions on the second monitor. Clicked apply. Closed settings.
5. Disabled monitor 1. Duplicates properly got disabled.
6. Enabled monitor 1. Duplicates properly got enabled.
7. Changed primary to monitor 1. All docks and shelves moved to monitor 1.

However - I just repeated this whole process and now changing the primary didn't mess things up, but only once. Then it happened.

The exact sequence, from step 7:
7: Changed primary to monitor 1. Everything remained where it was.
8. Changed primary to monitor 2. Everything remained where it was.
9. Changed primary to monitor 1 again. Then it happened. Everything moved to monitor 1.

No idea what's causing this.

winstep wrote:
One thing weird I noticed after taking a look at the monitor profile files:

There is a config where the 2560x1440 monitor is at (0,0) and the 1920x1080 monitor is at (2560,0) but then there is another profile where everything is the same except the 1920x1080 is now at (2560,188) instead (i.e.; 188 pixels lower).

Likewise, a third profile exists where the 1920x1080 monitor is at (0,0) while the 2560x1440 is at (-2560,-188) - notice the minus signs.


Probably a leftover of my first tests with loading monitor profiles though the 3rd party app. You can move monitors up and down too in the monitor settings, so that when leaving monitor 1 in the upper half with your mouse, the cursor appears in the lower half of monitor 2 for example. (this works in the native Windows settings aswell) Since the monitors aren't alligned side by side in my setup, I don't care about a small offset when configuring the monitor profiles.


winstep wrote:
There are also two *single monitor* profiles for the 1920x1080 at (0,0) and the 2560x1440 at (0,0). This is weird, it's like each of the two monitors becomes part of a *single* monitor system in turn, at least for a little while.


Yeah, I've disabled my main monitor (TV) while doing the tests.
Is this a problem generally? Sometimes I use only the Acer monitor.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:55 pm 
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toniostarcevic wrote:
7: Changed primary to monitor 1. Everything remained where it was.
8. Changed primary to monitor 2. Everything remained where it was.
9. Changed primary to monitor 1 again. Then it happened. Everything moved to monitor 1.

No idea what's causing this.


I have a feeling the routine invoked to handle the monitor profile changes is sometimes being interrupted by another monitor profile change.

toniostarcevic wrote:
Yeah, I've disabled my main monitor (TV) while doing the tests. Is this a problem generally? Sometimes I use only the Acer monitor.


No, I only found it odd. Every change in the number, position and size of the monitors will create an individual monitor profile file.

My problem is that I run out of time to troubleshoot this fully. I have to release v18.11 officially.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:22 am 
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Ok, something for you guys to see... and comment on:


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:31 am 
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That was cool!
8) :D 8) :D 8) :D

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:40 am 
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DanDaBear wrote:
That was cool!
8) :D 8) :D 8) :D


It was, wasn't it? I'm also very happy because I just found my go-to video guy. I'll hire him again to do videos for Nexus Ultimate and Winstep Xtreme.

And whenever I need a new one... I already know who to ask. Real talent is a lot more difficult to find than most people think.

Plus... he liked the software so much he plans on keeping it lol

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:23 am 
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thumbs up!


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:47 am 
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winstep wrote:
DanDaBear wrote:
That was cool!
8) :D 8) :D 8) :D


It was, wasn't it? I'm also very happy because I just found my go-to video guy. I'll hire him again to do videos for Nexus Ultimate and Winstep Xtreme.

And whenever I need a new one... I already know who to ask. Real talent is a lot more difficult to find than most people think.

Plus... he liked the software so much he plans on keeping it lol

Err.... Cool? Depends on your definition of cool. Slick, yes, very. Well executed, very. Zero content though - wouldn't sell me a banana even if I liked bananas (I don't, at least not the crap imported into Europe) or anything for that matter. And that so-called music (is it properly licensed, btw?) is extremely distracting and annoying. I'd cut it off about 10 secs in, max, normally - only watched further because you asked. :)

It's just like some really crap commercials on TV that everybody complains about, e.g. for a certain Korean smart phone, for Apple shite, or for a certain British mobile network. Just annoying - all style and zero substance, no real content that might possibly get me interested in the slightest. Sorry Jorge, if this was intended to sell me Nexus - forget it, not buying, not interested. Wouldn't even want to try it.

All that said, the guy unquestionably has some talent. But he needs a really tight and well researched script to work from, and an art director and director.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:58 am 
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This is not a video about content. It's a short video designed to Wow people (and even you admit in succeeds in that by calling it 'slick') and show off some of the eye candy. The same way a movie trailer is only designed to show *some* interesting bits - enough to get the audience interested - and not tell the whole story, so is this demo video.

A video designed to showcase content would be VERY different, much longer, and also a lot more boring.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:14 am 
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I think visual wise is just great.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:40 am 
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winstep wrote:
This is not a video about content. It's a short video designed to Wow people (and even you admit in succeeds in that by calling it 'slick') and show off some of the eye candy. The same way a movie trailer is only designed to show *some* interesting bits - enough to get the audience interested - and not tell the whole story, so is this demo video.

A video designed to showcase content would be VERY different, much longer, and also a lot more boring.

Obviously it's not about content in the sense of technical content Jorge, hence my comparison to certain TV commercials here.

And no, I do not admit it succeeds in wowing anyone - certainly not me or anybody I know personally. It does not show anything that might possibly get me interested. It doesn't even tell me WTH it is exactly. And it doesn't succeed in showing off any eye-candy effectively. The whole thing is far too fast paced for that. Less is more would apply there - make it slower and show it once, in detail.

In fact, it could almost qualify as a clone of one of those aforementioned TV commercials.

Slick just means the style and execution of the production being very smooth etc., it doesn't imply that something does have any sort of wow factor or anything else. (In fact, in certain contexts 'slick' can take on very negative connotations, though not in this case.)

You may like it, and Dan may like it, but that doesn't make it an effective video advertising the product.

It would also be highly questionable, IMO, whether focusing on eye-candy really is the right approach. I very much get the impression that out there, fewer and fewer people could give a stuff about eye-candy. If anything, I rather suspect that this would just preach to the converted, as it were. Yeah, any existing users that are into eye-candy may well love it. Anybody else 'out there', beyond this user base, beyond the tiny eye-candy lover market, likely won't look twice.

Forgot to mention also - that Nexus logo title sequence is way, way, way too long. I make it about 21secs - about 8secs would be far more effective. This is just showing off animation and nothing else.

What you really need, desperately I think, is input from outside, from people who have no connection with or vested interests in the app or eye-candy or even any kind of customisation, or who are at least able to think outside, think outside the box. Asking about it in here is a bit like asking your mother - she'll naturally tell you it's great and she loves it, because she loves her son. She won't ever tell you that it couldn't sell a banana to a starving monkey, even if she thought that.

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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:02 am 
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Here's my take on the Winstep Nexus Dock video.

First, the music is absolutely awesome!

Second, the visuals are very well done.

Third, however, I agree with Nexter that the video really doesn't show what the software is capable of. Maybe because I'm used to Xtreme which is more robust.

I barely understood what I was seeing and obviously I'm familiar with what Winstep is. I think other features should be chosen to properly showcase the product.

Jorge, for the new release, did you fix the issue with external hard drives showing in the WorkShelf Desktop tab? That is a serious issue that needs to be dealt with since a user's files can be deleted by no fault of their own.

Also, the new Shelf setting (multi tabs) blocks more than my browser theme. It blocks the minimize/close buttons. I really wish you didn't change it so it expands the width of the screen. And you haven't addressed my question about the single-tab Shelf no longer being able to stay collapsed at the single tab size and opening (in my case with a bump) to whatever size the amount of icons/folders there are.


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:12 am 
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About Chuck taking a flight...
winstep wrote:
Lalalaal lala - Machiavel, for those who don't recognize the lyrics :)


The video doesn't play so I had to go to YouTube and search for it. Never heard that song until now.

I like this one better! :) The music starts at about :58 seconds. Although the video isn't an airplane, it's much cooler! :lol: Just in case it doesn't play from here, the name of the video is Flyboard Family Official.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd6C1vIyQ3w


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 Post subject: Re: So, what's next after v18.10?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:05 pm 
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Jorge, Windy summed it up very nicely with "I barely understood what I was seeing." Says it all I think. If it elicit that response from a fairly long-term user even, then what hope....?

Look, as I see it anyway, the whole point of this video is meant to be, to sell Nexus to new punters. It simply does not do that, as I've already pointed out. Here are a few positive pointers to what it needs in order to succeed in this task.

It needs to say, look, here's this great app that can look as fantastic as you like and at the same time make your life with Windows a lot easier and more productive - no, it needs to shout this out very loudly and clearly! Then it needs to explain - at any rate visually at least - what exactly Nexus is and does and can do, not just how 'pretty' it can be but what it actually is and how it can help you. Most people out there wouldn't know what a dock is if it bit them on the nose. Also, as it's Nexus on its own, it needs to be shown off in a very bog-standard Windows context, replete with desktop icons and Windows taskbar. Otherwise it will make no sense whatsoever to the uninitiated. Just being 'cool' sells nothing, unless you're a quasi-evangelical religious freak show with a fanatical following like a certain fruit-named company that sells (mostly) on style alone and Chr... err, 'Jobsian' fundamentalist zealotry preaching the Gospel according to St. Steve. ;)

The video needs to convince the viewer that this is a product he needs to try at the very least. If it cannot do that, then it's a complete failure and a waste of money, I'm sorry to say. Ideally, you really want it to be able to sell the proverbial freezer to an Eskimo living in the deepest Arctic!

Never mind that we all know that NeXus is far from the be all and end all of Winstep and, on its own, far less useful and flexible than the complete suite, with a bit of luck, the newly attracted user will soon see that he could do so much more by upgrading. :)

In fairness, the video should also point out that NeXus is part of a greater suite of apps that can completely replace his Windows desktop.

Keep it all concise, but brief and to the point, and above all, clearly and easily understandable by the uninitiated. And keep the music to a minimum and generally, only very muted in the background. By all means, an opening 10 or 15secs of some attention-grabbing music, but no more. Everything else calm, muted, reassuring.

I can well understand that you don't like what I have to say Jorge, but it's all only said to be constructive and to help. I'm not your mother to tell you nice. cpmfortable and comforting things. More like the mother-in-law from hell to tell hard-hitting, ugly, uncomfortable, cold comfort home truths. ;)

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