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 Post subject: Re: New system nearly here!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:06 pm 
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Windy wrote:
You've got me! :lol: I'm still confused! :lol:

DesertDwarf wrote:
Did I get it right, Jorge?


What he said, Windy... almost. lol

The whole system is air cooled. The CPU cooler is the mighty Noctua NH-D15 with Chromax black covers to hide the silver metal cooler. I also wanted to get the new black Noctua fans, but alas, could not get them in time so those ended up being the normal fugly beige and brown Noctua fans.

Image

These fans might look burple (lol) in some angles because I also have a blue LED strip at the front: the blue reflection interacts with the dark brown Noctua fan blades and makes them look burple. :)

The Noctua Chromax covers:

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All case fans (front, rear and top) are Cooler Master 140mm ARGB fans set to white to match the C700M case led strips, but from certain angles they also seem to have a bluish tint.

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The white things at the front: the bottom rectangular box is a Crucial MX500 1TB SSD, the top white box is actually a remote weather station that I use to independently monitor the temperatures inside the case. :)

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The temperature probe:

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The graphics card is a ASUS ROG Strix 2080 Ti OC Gaming:

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and finally this is what the Intel Optane 905p looks like:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New system nearly here!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:53 am 
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Just want to make sure I understand correctly. Those are fans that are on the left and top that appear silver and look like a CD right?

Is this the exact one? http://us.coolermaster.com/product/Deta ... p-rgb.html


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 Post subject: Re: New system nearly here!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:08 pm 
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Yes! lol

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 Post subject: Re: New system nearly here!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:43 am 
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One of the great things about modern systems is that case, CPU, GPU, etc, fans can now be software controlled. The faster they spin, the more noise is created, so naturally you only want them to spin as fast as necessary to keep your system cool or at least at acceptable temperatures.

ASUS has something called QFAN in the BIOS that automatically (and by default) takes care of all this for you, and these days it's really pretty good - but it has two FATAL flaws, IMO:

First it is only able to adjust fan speed according to CPU temperature. Actually this is not quite true, it is also able to adjust them based on other temperature sensors on your motherboard, such as the PCH, VRM, etc...

One of the immediate problems with this is that in cannot control fan RPM based on the highest of two or more temperatures, for instance. So, this system is only good if you have fans dedicated to specific components, which you can then get the BIOS to control individually.

This in turn leads to the second fatal flaw: some games are GPU intensive but hardly touch the CPU. This means CPU temperatures remain low while the GPU temperatures go through the roof. But because the speed of case fans is normally controlled by CPU temperatures, this means they remain at low RPM even while your GPU card is overheating.

Of course, the GPU does have its own fans, but keeping it cool, just as it happens with the CPU, is a *combined* effort of both the GPU fans and the case fans. Especially when the GPU is open-air (as most of them are these days): the hot air is being thrown BACK into the case, so it needs to be removed ASAP, and this is where the case fans come in.

The opposite can also happen, of course, i.e.; you run an application that is CPU intensive but hardly touches the GPU.

So, the first problem is that the BIOS *only* knows about temperature sensors on the motherboard itself (and CPU), but it knows nothing about the temp sensors in the GPU cards. At BIOS level, you thus cannot even use that very important input.

In a way it's understandable given that various types of sensors used by different GPU cards and brands.

On the software side, on the other hand, the world is your oyster, and there are many, many, applications out there capable of monitoring the temperatures of your CPU cores, GPU, VRM, hard disks, etc, all at the same time, and even control the fans of the GPU, etc..., based on those temperatures.

What surprises me is that there is only ONE (that I know of) that does the next logical thing: allow the combined input of BOTH the GPU and CPU temperatures to regulate the speed of your case fans. It's called Argus Monitor and costs about $8 (trying it out now).

Speedfan is a well known application that can do this too, but it is not well maintained, doesn't work with all motherboards and GPUs, and it has been banned by the anti-cheat protection of some popular games.

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 Post subject: Re: New system is here! Intel Optane 905p inside!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:05 am 
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As I stated in a previous post on this thread, my quest for getting the most out of the Optane 905p drive led me to try installing it on the PCIe slot directly connected to the CPU (which would also bring maximum GPU bandwidth down to x8 from x16) instead of the motherboard's PCH.

My experience showed me that - unlike what I expected - this actually resulted in WORSE write speeds and even less performance, and not just in synthetic benchmarks as demonstrated by copying large files between the EVO 970 2TB and the Optane (2 GB/s vs. 1.8 GB/s). So the Optane is back on the PCH PCIe slot where it belongs.

There was one thing I had not tried yet: disabling the Specter patches. If you have been living under a rock and don't know what Specter is, just Google about it, plenty of information out there.

Specter is basically a vulnerability in Intel CPU processors which can, under very, very, specific circumstances, allow one process to 'read' data from another process (which it should not be able to). Due to how the vulnerability works, it is VERY difficult to pull off, and it's not something like the normal vulnerabilities we are used to that can get your system p0wned in an instant.

Basically this one only allows one rogue process to read part of another processe's memory (and if that rogue process is already running in your computer, well...).

The importance of this is that the fix to these vulnerabilities impacted performance in a way never seen before in a patch: up to 30-40% when doing heavy disk operations due to Kernel switching.

So, because of the nature of Specter and the fact that in over a year there are no known exploits out there, I decided to disable the Specter patch in my system to see what that would do to the performance of the Intel Optane. And the results were, as expected, eye opening:

Attachment:
Optane_PCH2.jpg
Optane_PCH2.jpg [ 50.54 KiB | Viewed 2980 times ]

This is the Optane in the PCIe slot connected to the PCH.
Note that sequential speeds are basically the same for all tests because here the limits are the drive itself.

Attachment:
Optane_CPU2.jpg
Optane_CPU2.jpg [ 50.18 KiB | Viewed 2980 times ]

This is the Optane in the PCIe slot connected directly to the CPU. As you can see, 4K Q8 and Q32 writes suffer a performance loss.

Attachment:
Optane_PCH_NoSpectre.jpg
Optane_PCH_NoSpectre.jpg [ 50.02 KiB | Viewed 2980 times ]

This is the Optane in the PCIe slot connected to the PCH with the Specter patch disabled. Need I say more?

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 Post subject: Re: New system is here: Intel Optane 905p inside!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:02 am 
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Thanks for showing off your new system components. I love seeing PC builds.

If I may... :) I just got my new pc built (AVAdirect) after 8 1/2 years on the same rig. I'm so stoked. Here's my specs:


-- Tower Case: View 32 Tempered Glass RGB Edition, No PSU, ATX,
-- ASUS PRIME X299-A, Intel X299 Chipset, LGA 2066, ATX Motherboard
-- Processor: INTEL Core™ i9-7920X 12-Core 2.9 - 4.3GHz Turbo, LGA 2066, 140W TDP, Processor
-- ASUS GeForce RTX™ 2070 ROG-STRIX-RTX2070-O8G-GAMING, 1410 - 1845MHz, 8GB GDDR6, Graphics Card [VR-Ready]
-- KINGSTON 32GB Kit (2 x 16GB) HyperX Fury DDR4 3200MHz, CL18, Black, DIMM Memory
-- EVGA 1000 G3, 80 PLUS Gold 1000W, ECO Mode, Fully Modular, ATX Power Supply
-- NOCTUA NH-U9DX i4, 125mm Height, Copper/Aluminum CPU Cooler
-- Arctic Silver 5, 12g, High-Density Polysynthetic, Silver Thermal Compound
-- 2 x COOLER MASTER MasterFan Pro 120 Air Pressure RGB 3 x 120mm, w/ Controller, 1500 RPM, 35 CFM, 20 dBA, Cooling Fan
-- SEAGATE 6TB BarraCuda Pro ST6000DM004, 7200 RPM, SATA 6Gb/s, 512E, 256MB cache, 3.5-Inch HDD
-- SEAGATE 4TB BarraCuda Pro ST4000DM006, 7200 RPM, SATA 6Gb/s, 512E, 128MB cache, 3.5-Inch HDD
-- CREATIVE Sound BlasterX AE-5, Internal, 7.1 channels, w/ Amplifier, PCI Express, Sound Card
-- ASUS XG-C100C, RJ45, 1/2.5/5/10Gbps, PCIe x4, Ethernet Network Adapter




Not the highest end of everything, but it's what I could afford.


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 Post subject: Re: New system is here: Intel Optane 905p inside!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:47 am 
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Nice! Congratulations, and I know *exactly* how you are feeling. :)

So, any photos?

The Thermaltake View 32 Tempered Glass RGB Edition looks very nice, but how are thermals? The gaps seem really small. Also, did they include a 3rd ring fan for the front of the case or just the two at the front and one at the back?


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 Post subject: Re: New system nearly here!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:44 pm 
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winstep wrote:
The durability of Razer material, despite being a premium brand, is also in question - they're pretty expensive but my previous experience has not been good: at a time I was running through one Razer Naga mouse once per year or so, crappy button switches - let's see how long this Mamba RGB one lasts.


AND I was right once again. Razer Mamba is already double-clicking instead of single-clicking - I don't think this mouse is even a year old.

Mice micro-switches must be the BIGGEST scam in the market, they are designed not to last much more than one year. You buy an $80 mouse thinking you're buying quality and the reality is that you are buying low quality Chinese Omron crap. The big name companies don't mind, of course, because most people will simply go out and buy ANOTHER mouse.

This does NOT have to be like this, I remember when mice used to last YEARS. I also remember that the first mice I started having problems with in relation to micro-switches were Logitech mice - another big brand. They're all the same in the end, and they get away with this because WE, consumers, allow them to.

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 Post subject: Re: New system is here: Intel Optane 905p inside!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:59 am 
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And meanwhile, here I sit, using a Logitech Trackman older than either of my children (and my older son is 16!). The buttons still work, as does the scroll wheel (and even the click function of the scroll wheel). Sadly, Logitech stopped supporting it long ago, so I'm using a Microsoft driver for it, which doesn't give me the ability to map the middle button to double-click, as I did in years gone by, but this thing is still rocking like when it was new.

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 Post subject: Re: New system is here: Intel Optane 905p inside!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:17 am 
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Back then they still used quality switches. Now it's all cheap low quality Chinese stuff - and it's deliberate.

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 Post subject: Re: New system is here: Intel Optane 905p inside!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:45 pm 
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Still have two meeces in use here, one must be about 15+ years old, the other about 12. Both de-balled and de-tailed USB, 2x AA batteries - NiMhs last about a month+, cheap alkalines about 3 months. (Software warns when juice is getting low.) Both of them Logitech. Can't beat those. One's a nice little laptop one which gets used the most, esp. also because it's effectively ambidextrous.

Also still have two tailed but de-balled ones, 3-button, non-scroll wheel, must be at least 20+ years old and still perfect but rarely used.

They just don't make stuff the way they used to. Applies to everything, alas. This creates enormous waste problems, wastes precious resources, and poisons the environment. Less choice, more quality and durability, less consumption, more re-use and recycling, that's the only solution.

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 Post subject: Re: New system is here: Intel Optane 905p inside!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:31 am 
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Oh bugger, did I get hold of the wrong end of the stick so to speak in re: the components my friend was giving me from upgrading his office server. Holy cow! It's not an 8 core, it's a 12 core Threadripper, complete with liquid cooler, 128 Gig Quad-channel DDR4 3200, which means the Asus mobo's RAM slots are maxed out, and he's also incd. the 1.25KW PSU as he had that replaced as well. (He's had his business server-cum-workstation upgraded to 32-core Threadripper and 256Gig RAM etc. - scary bloody price too! You could almost get some cars for that!)

Now I can't see for the life of me needing that kind of spec, ever. Even the gfx card - an Asus Geforce 1250 something or other with 4GB GDDR5 and 2 sodding big fans, going to 8K resolution! - I got from another friend is total overkill for me but I think I can live with it. But as for the rest - I think I'll either sell as components or build up as a system and sell, and take the money and build something that'll still be more than adequate for my needs, say a 6 - 8-core system with 64 Gig RAM.... Besides, I don't really fancy having to pay for all that electricity that that monster would use!

The whole board with RAM and CPU alone looks more like something out of a sci-fi movie than a bloody computer. Things certainly have changed beyond recognition since my last system build about 13 years ago or so...

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 Post subject: Re: New system is here: Intel Optane 905p inside!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:20 am 
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Looks like you have nice friends, Ric! lol :wink:

I would take all the cores I could get though! :)

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 Post subject: Re: New system is here: Intel Optane 905p inside!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:59 pm 
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winstep wrote:
Looks like you have nice friends, Ric! lol :wink:

I would take all the cores I could get though! :)

LOL! Yeah, like someone else I could mention too... ;) True though, even though these things would otherwise have ended up as parts for s/h trade and brought in nothing worth thinking about of course. Just business write-offs against tax. But if you can invest a bit of time and effort, they're very saleable. :)

You're right Jorge, in some ways the more cores the merrier, but realistically, I really don't need that kind of crunching power, and on the other hand that set-up sucks up current like it's going out of style! The cooler alone uses more juice than the CPU, and that's not even mentioning all that RAM and its coolers, and the necessary case fans to keep the whole box at a reasonable temperature. And electricity here is some of the most expensive anywhere.

The money I could make from this would more than pay for a pretty decent mid-range system, based on one of the 8-core/16-thread Ryzens or do. Intel i7/i9 and 64 Gig RAM, perhaps a less ambitious GFX card as I will never ever play games, though 8K resolution would be good, a decent Sound/audio card, maybe a small (1 or 2 TB) SSD system drive plus a 2TB data HDD drive, plus a decent PSU and perhaps one of these new-fangled 'arse upside-down' cases (without glass, mind! Don't want any flashing lights etc. ;) ) and some other bits and bobs.

That would use less than half the current that the 12-core system would use, too! :) And even the 12-core I very much doubt would make a huge difference in terms of most of the things I do on computer these days compared to even my old AMD X2 system which is still pretty damn nippy, especially since upgrading it last year to SATA 3, SATA 3 boot disk, and USB 3 with very cheap s/h components. After all, about half of what I do is just typing, and you can only type that fast and no faster. 120 cpm isn't so bad after all... :P

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 Post subject: Re: New system is here: Intel Optane 905p inside!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:22 pm 
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nexter wrote:
After all, about half of what I do is just typing, and you can only type that fast and no faster. 120 cpm isn't so bad after all... :P

:? !!

What does that mean? I assume that isn't a typo because the letter "c" is no where near the letter "w".


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