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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2025 11:35 pm 
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Something else that I was just considering... without support for multi-session modules I cannot do multiple desktop modules, but using the same reasoning used for the drives module above, I can already add support for iconic clocks supporting multiple time zones.

In the Item Properties dialog for an iconic clock module, where the Arguments field currently is I could add a time zone enumeration, same enumeration Windows shows for timezones.

This way the user could select a specific timezone for that individual iconic clock module (remember you can have as many clock modules in a dock, etc, as you want, and this way each would display the time in a different time zone) and change the "Label" to reflect the timezone. This way the user could have multiple clocks in a dock or shelf or whatever, one displaying the time in London, another in New York, etc...

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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2025 2:06 am 
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winstep wrote:
Also improved the visual stability of docks when the insertion point moves as you drag items over them.

And one I know you will like, Nexter: added "draw clock hands" setting for the iconic analog clock style. Forces the analog clock to draw the hands (like before) instead of using bitmaps.

Yep, like it. :D As is at the moment, even in at least some of the 'paid' themes the iconic hands are not properly presented and very hard to make out at all.
winstep wrote:
Anyway, with this part done I think the application is ready for a public beta.

While the beta out, I am actually considering adding a new disk drive module. Turns out I won't need multi-session modules for this type of module.

Great! :)
winstep wrote:
In terms of iconic modules I can use the arguments field to let the user select a drive letter for that instance of the module like it already happens with the CD Control IC (kind of a waste of work given how optical drives went the way of the dodo eheh). You would have one iconic module for each drive you want to monitor.

Err, no, rumors of the demise of optical drives have been greatly exaggerated. :P I have internal DVD recorders in two laptops, a Blue Ray in the desktop, and fairly often still use CDs and DVDs for various purposes, inc. OS (mainly Win) recovery discs. (Belts, braces, and string, don't you know. ;) )

To be honest, to my way of thinking individual iconic drive modules really are just overkill. Ugh! And I'd much prefer a separate mod for an aggregate of all drives for drive activity - current and overall total read and write, something nice and compact, and no LED or other flashing lights. Both for iconic and desktop. More than adequate, surely - I mean, who *needs* drive activity for individual drives! We don't want to encourage clutter or information overload. :D And what about resource usage?
winstep wrote:
As for the desktop version of the Drive module, it would be a single background bitmap that grows dynamically to accommodate all the local drives you want to monitor (user selectable, of course). Something that can either grow vertically as you add more drives, or horizontally, depending on user preference (each drive would be a "section" inside the container bitmap). The actual drive info, graph, visual info, etc, would thus be drawn on top of that "container" bitmap. Since you can have two different styles, I'm thinking perhaps a dark version and a light version (a bit like the desktop calendar module, actually).

Freeform themeable not possible then (say like the current Net In/Out)? If not, then it would surely need to be really, really compact. Light and dark version, don't really know if that would work.

winstep wrote:
Now, in terms of information... Drive letter, Free/Used space, of course, bytes read and written per sec, and I am thinking that an (optional?) drive activity led might also be useful.

In terms of the iconic module free/used space could be represented by a pie chart with one slice (i.e. the drive icon would be a pie chart instead of a static representation of a drive, and on top of it we would add the drive letter and the activity led). Something like that. Or could be a static image of a drive with a bar on top of it, the bar level showing a visual representation of the free/used space.

Ugh! LED - so old hat, surely. Do. for pie chart. Info, drive letter, free/used space, end of story AFAIC. :D As for graphic, simple proportional bar graph (right to left) gets my vote, with free/used space on respective part of bar. And separate single activity module as already mentioned.
winstep wrote:
Anyway, just throwing ideas around at this point. Anyone reading this feel free to chime in, now is the time to do it.

Chiming in, loud and long! ;)
winstep wrote:
Below are some interesting design concepts for the iconic drive module suggested by CoPilot and ChatGPT (I actually like his recommendation, at least it's pretty original I would say):

Yuck! don't like any of those, all perfectly ghastly. They'd really not scale down well to FHD also. Oh, and Chat GPT, *his* rec.?! Surely not! It's just a programme, so *its* rec. :D


winstep wrote:
The third example suggested by co-pilot in the image below is also interesting, perhaps for one of the style (the other being a pie chart). Would be the image of a drive (a bit like the new Mac drive icons or even Windows 11 drive icons in This PC, but with a steeper perspective so you can see more of the front, which holds the disk usage bar) but I would probably put the drive letter on the cover of the drive, perhaps even in perspective.

Well, ChatGPT and Copilot certainly don't seem to pose the slightest risk yet to putting graphic designers out of work. :) This lot no better really. Just a simple bar graph etc, gets my vote, as above.
winstep wrote:
Ah, the colors of the pie chart (or the bar) could be theme-defined so they match the theme (and also defined by the user, of course).

Thank goodness for small mercies! :D

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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2025 3:56 am 
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winstep wrote:
This way the user could select a specific timezone for that individual iconic clock module (remember you can have as many clock modules in a dock, etc, as you want, and this way each would display the time in a different time zone) and change the "Label" to reflect the timezone. This way the user could have multiple clocks in a dock or shelf or whatever, one displaying the time in London, another in New York, etc...


Well on my way to adding this! All going well, should be done tonight. :D

nexter wrote:
To be honest, to my way of thinking individual iconic drive modules really are just overkill. Ugh! And I'd much prefer a separate mod for an aggregate of all drives for drive activity - current and overall total read and write, something nice and compact, and no LED or other flashing lights. Both for iconic and desktop. More than adequate, surely - I mean, who *needs* drive activity for individual drives! We don't want to encourage clutter or information overload. :D And what about resource usage?


The LED would be optional, of course. Personally I would find it useful to detect when activity is going on in a drive that should be idle, for instance.

And yes, resource usage does increase if you enable the LED, of course, since then I would have to poll the drives once every 100ms instead of once per second. But that type of resource usage is pretty much meaningless (of course, every little bit adds up).

As for the iconic disk drive modules, keep in mind that Nexus Ultimate does not have desktop modules. For Nexus Ultimate users, it's either iconic drive modules or nothing!

And yes, for the disk monitor desktop module I also want something nice and compact.

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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2025 5:53 am 
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winstep wrote:
Well on my way to adding this! All going well, should be done tonight. :D


And... done!

P.S. Yes, I know the time in the tooltip is wrong, but I already fixed it here.


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Screenshot 2025-09-10 063304.png
Screenshot 2025-09-10 063304.png [ 33.28 KiB | Viewed 265 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2025 3:38 pm 
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winstep wrote:
Plus, who knows, the new code that I had to come up with in order to do this might come in handy for other things...


Hopefully it will! :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2025 3:53 pm 
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nexter wrote:
winstep wrote:
nexter wrote:
Please Jorge, consider using selection with <ctrl> + click for individual file selection, and <shift> + click for a bunch of consecutive files.


Ok, I think I got it working as I wanted it now.

You can select multiple icons via a selection box, CTRL+Left Click to toggle single items or SHIFT+Left Click to select consecutive items. You can also press CTRL+A to select all items at once.

This multi-select ability, of course, only applies to shelves, grid stacks and drawers. Docks do not have selection boxes.

I'm also adding an option to toggle multi-select on and off (on by default, I would say?) in case any users prefer the previous behavior (for instance, with multi-select on you can no longer use SHIFT + Left Click to force launch an item, although you can still use the middle mouse button)

Brilliant! :D Multi-select off by default would seem more natural/logical.


Not sure about this. I think that default ON would be more logical for people who normally use applications where you can select multiple items. I can see that if you have become accustomed to using the Nexus (SHIFT + Left Click) to force item launch, you may want to change this default, but as a new user I would expect it to be the default.


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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2025 4:34 pm 
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On a separate note regarding multi-select in Workshelf - is there a definition of which actions can then be performed?

Move I can see.

What about delete? Could be dangerous if done accidentally - may want to confirm action (possibly provide ability to delete all, or prompt for each delete - in a similar manner to windows explorer overwrite when copying files to a directory).

What about right-click context menu? Will this be there? Will the options be limited (hopefully!)? Which options would be sensible? Can you use 'Open' to do something similar to the proposed Launch stack?

Is the plan to allow moves within a workshelf, or between workshelves?

Etc....

On the topic of the Launch Pad - I like the idea, although I don't think my current workflows would use it heavily (this could change), but will there be the concept of starting order / dependencies? makes it a bit more complicated but if applications needed to be opened in a particular sequence (or at least some of the applications).....

I agree with Nexter that the static one with the rocket looks good, although you may want to be able to change the colours.

Was going to suggest use of ALT key , but you got there first!


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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2025 5:10 pm 
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You've got me started looking at this again - so I will be having a play over the next few days, and will come back with questions / suggestions :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2025 5:39 pm 
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techlobo wrote:
Not sure about this. I think that default ON would be more logical for people who normally use applications where you can select multiple items. I can see that if you have become accustomed to using the Nexus (SHIFT + Left Click) to force item launch, you may want to change this default, but as a new user I would expect it to be the default.


It will be on by default.

Instead of Shift-Left Click use the Middle Mouse button. That is what Windows uses too, therefore it should not be hard to adapt.

techlobo wrote:
On a separate note regarding multi-select in Workshelf - is there a definition of which actions can then be performed?


Move, copy, delete. Delete will show a confirmation provided you have this option enabled (and it is by default).

You can move/copy items between *everything* that accepts drag & drop (including Explorer folders and Show Folder tabs if dragging shortcuts, actual folders or files). If you move a Grid Stack or a sub-dock, no matter how many nested stuff is in it (e.g. other sub-docks, Grid Stacks, etc), it will also be moved. If you copy, everything nested in it is copied too.

To delete several selected items at once either drag them all to the Recycle Bin or press the DEL key.

techlobo wrote:
What about right-click context menu? Will this be there?


Not at the moment. If you right click an item, any multi-selection is removed.

This said, I have been playing with the idea of adding Copy/Cut/Paste options to the right click menus (i.e. use the Windows Clipboard as well).

techlobo wrote:
On the topic of the Launch Pad - I like the idea, although I don't think my current workflows would use it heavily (this could change), but will there be the concept of starting order / dependencies? makes it a bit more complicated but if applications needed to be opened in a particular sequence (or at least some of the applications).....


Since a Launch Stack ins essentially a Regular tab of a Grid Stack (hmmm, also like the Launch Pad name, rats) items will be launched in the order they are placed there. Move them around inside the Launch Stack to change the launching order.

One thing you need to do if launching multiple items that require elevation is to mark them with "Run As Admin" even if the apps do this themselves. This will make the Launch Stack to wait for the UAC prompt to go away before trying to launch the other apps in the list.

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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2025 6:17 pm 
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I can see why you called it Launch Stack, but I think that Launch Pad is a bit more descriptive and sounds good!

I also think that there is an argument to enable 'Open' on a right-click menu when multiple items are selected. You can always make it configurable if preferred.


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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2025 12:14 am 
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techlobo wrote:
I can see why you called it Launch Stack, but I think that Launch Pad is a bit more descriptive and sounds good!


And I agree. Changed all references in the code and language files (all hundreds of them) from "Launch Stack" to "Launch Pad". Hurray for "Search & Replace", or this would have been an impossible task lol!

techlobo wrote:
You've got me started looking at this again - so I will be having a play over the next few days, and will come back with questions / suggestions :wink:


I should put a beta out soon for people to play with, just taking care of some lose ends first.

What do you think about the Disk Monitor design ideas, by the way?

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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2025 7:48 am 
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winstep wrote:
What do you think about the Disk Monitor design ideas, by the way?


Sorry Jorge I can appreciate that you put effort into creating these but I don't use any desktop modules as I prefer a minimalist desktop. The only things I have on my desktop are icons of frequently used applications, with all of the others tidied away in the workshelf, or on the quick-launch bar.

(Actually I've just noticed that my desktop 'coverage' is increasing, so I need another round of tidying!).

So I just skimmed through those bits - but from what I saw I did prefer the following views:


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drive_usage_bar.png [ 143.97 KiB | Viewed 198 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2025 7:49 am 
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In the case of the external drive representation though, the drive letter should sit on the shell of the drive.


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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2025 10:41 am 
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techlobo wrote:
In the case of the external drive representation though, the drive letter should sit on the shell of the drive.


I agree, slanted so it looks etched onto the shell of the drive... the top part where the letter currently sits could perhaps have x% free. This would be a "classic" hard drive widget icon.

The other 3D pie style, however, would be hard to do properly, since it has to be generated dynamically.

winstep wrote:
I should put a beta out soon for people to play with, just taking care of some lose ends first.


Ok, download a beta of Winstep Xtreme v25.9 from HERE.

It needs to be installed ON TOP of an existing v25.7 installation. Unzip and exit all running Winstep applications before running setup.

Let me know if you don't find any serious bugs and I'll have a public beta out of it.

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 Post subject: Re: So what's next after v25.7 ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2025 10:52 am 
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I'm not sure if this is something that can already be done (and I just can't find it yet), of if its something that can be added?

I would like to be able to mouseover a grid stack in the workshelf, and for the relevant gridstack to be displayed until the mouse is moved away. i.e. a quick way of seeing which entries (applications say) are in the grid stack.

I know that I can use the 'Open sub-docks on mouseover' property within the workshelf to show the grid stack, but it remains visible after the mouse moves away from the grid stack icon.

Two other questions also:

1) Even after the Workshelf properties have been set (say icon size to 36 pixels) if I create a grid stack on the workshelf its properties have reverted back to some original (default) config e.g. icon size at 48 pixels. Is there somewhere that these defaults can be set, or ideally shouldn't they be inherited from the Parent (e.g. Workshelf)?

2) Am I able to change the icon for a grid stack on a per grid stack basis? I realise that the icon represents a set of items in a box / drawer, but it would be nice to be able to make the icon represent the group of items it relates to.


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