LightningBolt, shut the fuck up we are all tired of the hot air coming from you.

Guess what mate. I started posting here in January 2011 and I consider myself to be new in here. I wouldn't even dare say anything like "say 'ahoey' if you agree with me". It's like trying to gather people around you, in case you haven't understood it yet, or choose not to.

I only agreed with your opinion, for what little weight it bears. It's not like Jorge will make me an admin just because you said it.
Let me repeat: I've only been here for a bit more than two years; I don't think I've been here long enough to be administering or moderating this forum.

People are argumentative and snappy only because we're left here wondering what the hell's going on, why Jorge is nowhere to be seen, what's gonna happen and so on. People were very nice and polite when we knew what was going on. Uncertainty and false prophets will do that for you.

I have no idea what you're talking about. My only reason for suspicion is that... I can't bloody verify anything you say!

That is exactly what I said in my previous post.

Actually I don't have a position to assert. Like I said, I've only been here for a couple of years; this thing goes back to 1998 or so. And in case you missed it, I tried and tried to avoid a dispute by being as polite and measured as possible, telling you that yeah, ok, you said what you had to say but we need to hear it from Jorge, otherwise it's just another fish story.
And I'm sorry but I don't see how you're "keeping the community together". Okay, you've answered a couple of posts (mostly regarding license renewals if memory serves), but forgive me if I don't exactly see you as a pillar of the community, here. It's a bit more complicated than that.

The only person who can do anything about that is Jorge. I don't see what me, you or any other member of this forum could do about it. If Jorge or his admin can't or won't do anything about this, it's irrelevant.

Again, this is all irrelevant. I have no idea whatsoever about international trade legislation or cross-country trade agreements, so I'll leave this into your capable hands, since you seem to be overly knowledgeable.

That is entirely up to you.


Just one last little thing: you have been condemning all those requests for assistance or complaints as fakes, "bogus" and defamatory. Why don't you extend that argument to people (no need to name names) who come in here and start spreading rumours about supposedly having spoken to Jorge, supposedly having inside information that "he's coming back very soon", that "he wants to come back bearing gifts", et cetera? It's not that big a leap.

Now, let me make another scenario, which is not far fetched at all. (incidentally, I am a physicist as well, and boy do we physicists love theoretical experiments)

Let's assume that one such person comes in a forum like this one, where the owner/programmer has been missing for quite a while. So, this person makes a few helpful posts, gets himself known, helps others regularly. Then, he comes in one day and says "hey, I've been talking to the programmer/owner, I've got news". So, he tells people a nice little story without any details and a promise that the owner/programmer will be back soon. Then, a little while later, our "friend" comes back with more news; "yeah I misunderstood, I thought he meant he'd be back soon, but I guess he'll be back when he's back, but I am still talking to him".
Then, after making a few posts like that, people start believing that indeed, this new person is actually talking to the owner/programmer and that, with the o/p missing, he's the next best thing and everything he says is the law.
Fast forward a bit, everybody in this theoretical forum has actually believed that the newcomer is actually speaking on behalf of the owner/programmer and that whatever he says is true. After all, he's coming now and then bearing supposed news from the owner/programmer -- even though nobody has ever heard a single word from him and despite the fact that the owner/programmer hasn't even logged in the forum in months -- news that nobody can neither verify nor disprove.

Then, one day, the newcomer comes in and breaks the news: "I've just talked to the owner/programmer, he's decided to shut down the programme and all support"; you fill in the rest, some story about "being tired", "not finding incentive to carry on", "disputes in the forum", "too much work", "other obligations at home", "burn-out" etc.
Naturally, since our new 'friend' has established himself to be universally and totally trustworthy, helping other users, bringing seemingly valid news from the owner/programmer from time to time, it goes without saying that everybody will believe that indeed, that statement is 100% true and that all development and support of the programme in our (entirely theoretical) scenario has ceased as of right there and then.

...and now, for argument's sake, just suppose that the owner/programmer has no idea about all that (after all, he hasn't even logged in in months, for whatever reason), and that the newcomer is an agent of a competitor, trying to do as much damage as possible.
Isn't it possible, that everybody will believe that it's all over and abandon ship en masse?
Isn't it possible, that even the regulars in that forum will have no way of knowing the truth?
Isn't it possible, that the damage caused by such an individual will be incalculable?

Isn't it *possible*?

If you are a physicist you understand what an implication is. Take your statement "I only agreed with your opinion, for what little weight it bears." Let's rephrase this. Because it is my opinion, it is of no great importance, even though YOU BELIEVE IT TO BE TRUE. And the reason I pulled it up is simple. I have been here in the flicker of a moment but figured something that in two years you never dared to express nor ventured to address.

Are there any Americans in the house? Skagon, take a good read of Paine and go for the depth of Jefferson. Broaden your horizons. Forget Physics. You may have memorized a lot of formulas but I don't see you carrying out rigorous mathematical proof.

BTW. Your description of the work of Catholic priests is fascinating.

And it is QED for me.

You do realise that what you're saying makes no sense, right?

"I only agreed with your opinion, for what little weight it bears"
literally translates to:
"I agreed in that I would be willing to help moderate the forum, even though that opinion, just because it comes from you and because you have no say in who gets to be a moderator and who doesn't, bears little weight".

And, for your information, I have suggested that Jorge find someone or some few people that he trusts to moderate the forum, long before you came. And still, when I did, which was less than a year ago, I felt like I'm overstepping my authority making such a suggestion, having been around for so little time.
It's still in here somewhere, you can find it if you bother searching. Then again, it could be in the "beta" room and I don't know if you have access to that.

I don't even see the relevance of Paine or Jefferson or any other american politician. I do apologise but yeah, I come from the little part of the world that's called "outside America". I do realise that a lot of Americans have issues acknowledging or even realising that great things happen and have happened outside your glorious country, but please try to visualise it.
I may not have delved into Paine or Jefferson, but I have read a lot of other -- probably unimportant to you -- people like Aristotle, Plato, Isocrates, Lysias, Demosthenes, Heraclitus, Empedocles and other names that probably sound strange and irrelevant to you.
Whether I can or cannot carry out rigorous mathematical proof is, again, irrelevant here. Unless you're looking for someone to help formulate a new branch of M-theory.

And BTW, I have yet again no idea what you're on about, with "the work of Catholic priests". It must be the fact that I'm not a Catholic, so my knowledge of the practices of the catholic ecclesiastics is rather limited.

Oh yeah, and it's Relativity, Cosmology and subsequently microelectronics for me.

I am sorry. But this:



does not mean the same thing as this:



With all the Greek philosophers you read, none of them mentioned the notion of context? I mentioned Americans because you seem not to understand the language. Maybe a translator would come handy at this point.

And isn't it stupid we are having this argument when I told from the outset we would go and be separated for emerging and increasing differences, instead of working together towards solutions?


__________________________________
And, oh yeah:

This if true would make you a student and not a physicist. There's no way you would work as a practicing cosmologist and then make the transition to microelectronics. I don't think you have a clue of what you are talking about.

actually lightingbolt skagon has a far, far, far better grasp of the english language and the use of it than you do. almost everything you've post is gibberish whereas what skagons posted is fairly concise.

LightingBolt : I think you've failed the Turing test. The name should have been a giveaway - stupid of me not to have spotted it sooner.

It's a long thread so let's sum up what we know from all this:

1. Jorge hasn't been around for a while.

And that's it. I'd have said let's sum up what we've learned, but we all knew it before the thread started.

@NeuroTox

I am sorry but I have to request clarification.

You think I am a machine ???!!!

[And what's up with my handle?]

@chucky: thanks mate, I was really beginning to wonder...

@lightningbolt: let's take it one thing at a time:

First item, to me it makes perfect sense. I don't know what your "assessment" was, but that is what I understood.

Second, putting philosophers aside for the moment, the only reason we're having an argument is the simple fact which you don't seem to be able to understand:
We cannot work together towards a solution, here. And that's simply because Jorge is the only person who can provide a solution. We can sit here arguing until we're blue in the face, but that won't change the fact that Jorge is not here and we have no 'say' in anything, we can't code the new version of Winstep, we can't issue licenses, we can't even provide true support for the programme; only Jorge can. Nothing we say can change that fact, unless of course one of us two *is* Jorge.
Now, I know I'm not Jorge. Are you?
If not, please, stop acting like you're his emissary and the keeper of the sacred truth, or a pillar in this forum. In fact, you just got here and your motives could be genuinely benevolent or truly malevolent for all we know.
Until Jorge comes along, the only thing the rest of us can do, in good conscience, is stop anyone from trying to usurp the "lead" position in here and appear as the new 'steward', until Jorge's back. Then, he can deal with all of us any way he sees fit.

.

Last item of business, I studied Physics, period. That includes classical mechanics, three semesters quantum mechanics, two solid state physics, two relativity, two electrodynamics, two particle physics and seven (if memory serves) mathematics, among others. Oh yeah, and three semesters electronics. I spent three years in the theoretical physics dept. doing relativity and cosmology, then I got fed up and switched to the electronics dept. and did microelectronics focusing on processor architecture.
So, I don't know what kind of physicist you are; maybe in your country or college, you only study quantum electrodynamics and nothing else. Here, we are required to learn a LOT. [Actually, you can check yourself; google for "University of Patras, Physics Department", I'm sure they've got an English version of the courses.]
And yes, I do consider myself a student of physics, simply because I could spend my entire life studying physics and still have another two lifetimes' worth of studying before I consider I know 'enough'.
Lastly, last time I checked, anybody can switch from anything to anything, pre-grad or post-grad. It's called "science". I never knew that there's a barrier preventing a cosmologist from studying electronics, or any other kind of field. In fact, one of my professors at the University was a nuclear physicist and a geologist at the same time. Go figure, huh? Two PhDs... what did he know!

Hey guys. Nothing like the truth coming from the horse's mouth, eh?

First of all, I understand all positions here, and, in a way, I'm proud of you guys 'defending the fort' - but the truth is that LightningBold *did* talk to me on the phone and everything he said is true. In a way, he became my messenger.

Like me, he is Portuguese and somehow managed to get my cell phone number, so one day I got this call (out of the blue) from him. We talked for a while (several times) and I did my best to explain what is going on.

He tried his very best to make me come back and I did tell him that this would happen sooner rather than latter. I also told him that I preferred to do it with actions rather than words.

This still holds true. If I haven't been around at all is because I actually feel ashamed of not having resolved my personal issues in a timely manner, thus 'leaving you all out to dry'. After such an extended absence, anyone pointing the finger at me is entirely right to do so, and I can do nothing more than agree with them.

On the other hand, what is done is done. I can only try to make it up to all those who renewed their licenses and basically got nothing for it. Such a thing can only be done by extending free updates by another year, but, for technical reasons, this will require some thought on how to accomplish it.

The only thing I don't like is people talking about ObjectDock vs. Nexus when ObjectDock itself has NOT BEEN UPDATED since 2010, and before that also went without an update for 3 years or more.

Anyway, I've began cleaning all the forum spam. Also banned by IP the whole of Indonesia (and probably Australia too, but that was by accident).

Glad you're back Jorge. For the record, I'm not mad at anyone for yesterday's dispute.

Well, since this is now resolved, I can say it's better to be proven wrong on being suspicious, rather than be right and not have said anything.

In retrospect and in light of the news, I've got quite a few things to say about what's been said here, but I think I'll let bygones be bygones.

Just one last thing to you, Jorge. If you need a "messenger", find someone we already know.
In fact, the other day I found your facebook page but still I didn't even leave a message because I thought it'd be a violation of your privacy. And that was *after* all the arguments we had in here.

i said my welcome back in the beta forum, so i'll just say you could of said any number of nonpersonal things for lighting bolt to pass on that any number of us would of known could only come from you.

Good to have you back Jorge. For what it's worth, I think you need to find a way to have the forum covered during an absence (just letting people know that you won't be around at least) and you really need to sort out cover for the registration issues. Anyone reading the forum ahead of purchasing in the last few weeks could easily have decided not to bother.
That said, I didn't buy Xtreme for what the next release would do and I've used it every day during your absence without a hitch, so I don't think you need to beat yourself up about it.

@ChuckysChild

Your idea would indeed be a good one if what @Skoda said were true that he sent me as a messenger. Jorge did not instruct me to do anything or to act one way or another. I did what I did and said what I said because I felt that that would be the right thing to do. If you backtrack on the conversation you will see that I disclosed that I had talked with Jorge because you pushed me into specifics, and questioned how did I know what I was stating.

Notice that Jorge said: "In a way, he became my messenger." In other words, if you look at it through a certain lens, through his actions, he relayed information. But the point here is that that was not pre-engineered, like sending a messenger implies.

At this point you have no reason not to believe what I am saying because Jorge can corroborate.